Challenge 25 ID policy.

[Wayland1]

Hello,

What do you think of the policy that requires shops to ask for ID from anybody who looks like they are under the age of 25 when they buy age-restricted products?

It's stupid because all people have to do to get around it is to just put the money on the counter and walk out with the item they are buying. But the notices are still nonetheless very unpleasant to have to look at.

What do you think?

I get id'd still at 34! It winds me up as they will admit that they genuinely don't think I'm underage! 🙄

I remember once, in my early twenties, I went to buy wine at an off license. I took it to the counter and woman serving asked me for ID, which I didn't have. No sooner had the words "oh no, I haven't got it with me actually" left my lips, when she lifted the wine off the counter and hid it behind. Maybe she once served someone who did throw the money down and run out!

I would think almost every shop now has scanning, so you really can't just throw down your money and run. It would mess up their stock taking for a start if they didn't see what you'd bought and log it on their till.

Yes, I am imagining an Open all Hours type shop perhaps. You don't tend to get a 'counter' anywhere else.
You would need the exact money too presumably as you aren't hanging about for change.

Good point @ProfessorSlocombe, but I really wanted to get down there to test the theory. It must be a shop with very little staff.

Well on a slow life day ... I lost the will when something was asserted as "in theory" when it most certainly is not. Sale and trade are probably one of mankinds oldest regulated activities, and you could probably giftwrap the entire UK with the volumes of statute and case law about the same. If there is one place you will not find a "grey area" it's in the process of exchanging goods for money.

About the only correct thing asserted is people don't get sent to prison for selling an age restricted product to a minor. But then again, stopped clocks can be right twice a day.

At the time I thought the woman was being really weird. As IF I was going to make a grab for it? Outrageous thought. But now I know there are people out there who throw their money down and run off, it all makes sense!

I mixed up the 2 different things I was reading re the jail term. My fault.
But I wouldn't want the possible £5k fine either it I held the licence that day they were investigated about.

FFS this isn't difficult. Challenge 21 and eventually Challenge 25 was introduced and publisised in order to err on the side of caution. Rather than a cashier looking at someone and assessing whether they look under 25 will mean that virtually no 17 year olds get through the net, where ID'ing only people you think could be 17, a whole load of 17,16,15, maybe even 14 year olds will slip through, especially with the girls made up, or a few of those lads who have a moustach at 14.

The posters draw peoples attention to the fact that if you look under 25 you may well be asked to prove you are over 18.

If you are over 18 and forget your ID, frankly your inconveinience is a small price to pay to keep alcohol out of underage hands. The ends justify the means in this case.

Maybe some cashiers are overzealous in their application, i.e. refusing sales to parents as they may supply it to children but don't let isolated incidents and urban myths cloud your judgement of the context of challenge 25. It is completely sensible.

was there anyone fined for selling someone to an adult without an ID? Or someone who had a young child with them?

www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/17809111.wokingham-39-s-bb-wines-fined-selling-kopparberg-minor/

It can happen.

A shop is under no obligation to sell anyone anything therefore until you process the purchase no transaction has taken place.

If you put money on the counter and walk out you may be deemed to have stolen the goods and just left some of your own belongings behind. It might be taken by the next person or deemed as a tip or charitable donation.
You have no receipt or proof that you left the correct amount or even legal tender. Maybe your cash will turn out to be counterfeit notes

And I'm still confused about how people in the UK who perfectly legitimately don't have photo ID, go about their day to day lives if you get IDd for things like energy drinks. It's bizarre.

If you are over 18 and forget your ID, frankly your inconveinience is a small price to pay to keep alcohol out of underage hands.

But does it ?

The ends justify the means in this case.

Not a justification I like to hear in the UK.

And I'm still confused about how people in the UK who perfectly legitimately don't have photo ID, go about their day to day lives if you get IDd for things like energy drinks. It's bizarre.

It is. But this challenge 25 is a fairly recent thing. A lot of those without IDs are obviously pretty old. Also it doesn't happen to everyone everywhere. You just might be "lucky" to encounter a stuck up cashier at random.

A challenge scheme, actually applying it, and being able to prove that you are applying it, are conditions of getting and keeping an alcohol licence. It can be challenge 21,25,30.... Etc etc, but anywhere selling alcohol must show a clear policy on protection of children from alcohol, on demand from the licensing authority or police, trading standards etc. Most places I have worked have a log that's filled in when ID is challenged, and the till records the response of staff to the ID questions. The posters show the policy is in place, the log that it's actually being used and not just for show.
You don't have to use challenge 25, if you can show that you are IDing people regularly that you think are under 18. But challenge 25 is considered 'best practice' or 'gold standard', so are adopted by many places to keep the licensing authority happy.
All the laws around alcohol push all the responsibility onto the retailer (and premises licence holder) and the person actually physically selling it. Booze makes a lot of profit and sanctions on a licence or losing it could be catastrophic to some businesses, and the concequences for the individual selling it are out of proportion and could literally ruin someone's life. Yet the person doing the drinking/demanding/kicking off at being IDd or refused doesn't face any concequences at all - And that's where the issues arise, because people are very precious about getting their hands on some booze. Or of course you get those that think that it's just the seller on a power trip..... When what they actually mean is they can't stand the fact someone who's job it is to serve them dares to challenge them in any way shape or form. In any kind of transaction the customer has the 'power' however some people seem to see that being IDd for a product age restricted by the government as a direct assault on that power and they really don't like it, as most in service roles are deemed beneath them.
It makes me laugh when someone says it's just a server on a power trip, like all these bar staff and shop assistants are planning on taking over the world one refused alcohol sale at a time 🙄
I really don't want to be responsible for anyone's alcohol consumption other than my own, but the law gives me the responsibility and the punishment should I get it wrong, therefore it's my call.

I wish I could actually pass as under 25 in some other situations, i.e. dating pool. But I don't, I am not a film star who could play a teenager. So yeah, if a cashier tells me to take it as a compliment when being refused service, they are actually taking a piss.

I'm 38 and got asked for ID to buy a packet of 16 paracetamol in Sainsbury's a few weeks ago. I thought it was hilarious to be honest. Brightened up my day no end

You just might be "lucky" to encounter a stuck up cashier at random.

Call me stuck up.all you like but I am not losing my livelihood nor causing someone else to lose thiers over a 4 pack of lager.

Freddiefatpants
Great post.👌

SerendipityJane oh come on, we're talking about people buying booze not population control. Don't be so dramatic.

Challenge 25 might not cure underage drinking, but creating measures to stop underage drinkers sourcing alcohol themselves from a shop is a pretty good start.

Challenge 25 might not cure underage drinking, but creating measures to stop underage drinkers sourcing alcohol themselves from a shop is a pretty good start.

You know, for something which is a poison, causes so many problems, and is a risk to children, I really don't know why we haven't banned alcohol completely.

@SerendipityJane

Oh FGS, you can't just BAN everything you don't like.

Many people are perfectly responsible drinkers you know.

What else would you like banning? Ciggies, lottery tickets, scratchcards, anything with sugar in it, (or carbs,) betting on the horses, the footie results, dog racing etc... anything containing caffeine, additives, or fat, ? Where does it all end?!

The phrase 'the nanny state' springs to mind!

Some countries have banned it. Not sure if its a good example to follow.

@FishCanFly

It's a terrible idea to ban alcohol in this country!

It's spot on. The 25 takes into account that people can easily look several years older than they are and it's to make it easier on staff for asking.

@MiniGuinness

Are people a bit dim? Because it is a weird way of wording it... if you are lucky enough. Although there were enough responses on this thread saying they love looking young enough to be thought of as under 25. Why? It’s not better, it could mean you have a big old moon face covered in acne, how is that lucky?

This. ^

I don't know why, but there seems to be this utter desperation from some people on here (and in real life too a bit,) to look/be thought of as much younger than they are. Like it makes them a better person, more special, and more appealing somehow.

And when someone says anything negative about it (like miniguinness up there,) they are accused of being immature, with comments like 'you must be very young.'

Well I'm not very young, I am an old codger who won't see 45 again, and I find these comments laughable and ludicrous. I have seen SO many of them on here, and other forums, and heard so many in real life... People claiming that people think they look soooo young, and they are 43 and were asked for I.D. to buy a can of red bull!

A woman I work with (who is 45,) recently claimed that everyone mistakes her for her 20 y.o. son's sister or girlfriend, because she looks soooooooo young. 🙄 She looks every bit her age, even though she dyes her mousy hair black, and has botox injections. Oddly, I have never ever heard anyone say she looks young for her age!

I have no idea why some people (usually women) are so desperate for people to say/think they look younger than they are. WTF is so bad about looking your age FGS?

I remember a woman (several years ago,) asking me to guess her age (you can tell when people think they look young for their age, coz they always ask you to guess,) and I thought she looked about 39-40. So I decided to be generous, and said '35-36.' She said, 'I am 35! Bloody cheek,' and looked really annoyed.

I was baffled, and I said 'what did I say wrong?' 'Well...' she retorted, 'everyone else thinks I'm in my 20s!' with a kind of look. So the silly goose was pissed off that I guessed her age exactly. As I said, I was being generous and I thought she looked 40 anyway!

If the claims (from some) are true, that they are in their 40s and shop assistants are asking them for I.D. to buy booze/scratchcards/red bull etc, then all that proves is that the shop assistant has poor eyesight, or is absolutely shit at guessing people ages. (Or as @FishCanFly said, they are taking the piss...)