Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if you think there will be a second coming?

891 replies

LuluBellaBlue · 03/01/2020 18:29

This is inspired by the new Netflix show Messiah, about a second coming.

I really hope this doesn’t upset or offend anyone and people can share their beliefs and thoughts openly and without prejudice or judgement as I know this can be very sensitive for some people.

Following on from —binge— watching this series I did a bit of googling and it seems both Christian and Muslim regions predict this. (Not researched if any others do yet)

I’m not very well informed about different regions but the concept of this programme has really interested me, I find it fascinating that this could, maybe? actually happen!

Do you think there could be a second coming?!

(And what would it actually mean for the world? A rise in consciousness? Mass healing???)

YABU - no don't be so daft!
YANBU - yes, this could happen, why not?!

OP posts:
speakout · 09/01/2020 13:52

It's only 23% of people who have bothered to vote here though.

Those that have an interest and a vew in the subject.

Many many more people will have glossed over the thread, nt botheered to read or vote.
It is a skewed sample.
I think the true number of people in the general population who think there will be a "second coming" much, much lower.

AutumnCrow · 09/01/2020 14:10

The vote isn't about that, though.

Chochorror · 09/01/2020 16:50

I have a box of 12 expresso pods.
They are all the same ie same flavour, same size, same design.
None of the pods are damaged in anyway.
If I had a pod(s) that was damaged then it would be reasonable to assume the damage happened during the manufacturing process.
The pods are designed.
The majority of humans are the same as in
We have
One head
Two eyes
One nose
One mouth etc......
Of course some people are the exception for example conjoined twins, being born with a missing limb. Whatever it maybe.
Maybe at conception cells didn't form properly and or sometimes the mother to be might not live a healthy lifestyle for example being a drug addict or alcoholic whilst pregnant and could possibly harm the unborn baby and cause birth defects.

My point is we as humans were designed
And only a higher being can do that.

TwilightPeace · 09/01/2020 16:55
  • My point is we as humans were designed And only a higher being can do that.*

Don’t even know where to start with this....

Madmoggie · 09/01/2020 16:56

Me neither!

YasssKween · 09/01/2020 17:15

My point is we as humans were designed. And only a higher being can do that.

Eh?! These two sentences don't logically connect in the way you seem to think. At all.

I think this is what I find frustrating - I totally understand people saying "I personally don't believe that humans were created by anything other than God" - they have every right to believe it even if I don't share that belief.

But stating it as a fact as above doesn't make it true. You've stated that as if one leads to the other but it doesn't.

YasssKween · 09/01/2020 17:20

Maybe at conception cells didn't form properly and or sometimes the mother to be might not live a healthy lifestyle for example being a drug addict or alcoholic whilst pregnant and could possibly harm the unborn baby and cause birth defects.

OK so why would your god allow the cells not to form properly if he designed everyone? If the mother behaved impeccably as many do but their child had lifelong difficulties caused by medical anomalies, how does that sit comfortably with you believing god exists?

If god creates every human then why would he do that? It doesn't make sense. Again, it's fine for people to say they don't know why but they still believe in god. I have no issue at all with people saying yes it doesn't make sense but I trust in it.

But it isn't ok to casually attribute conditions to a mother's choices not taking into account the myriad other reasons that are just unfortunate anomalies and nothing to do with the behaviour of the parents... IF you believe in god.

If your god would punish a child for their parents choices, made before the child was even born, then I'm glad I don't believe.

SirChing · 09/01/2020 17:28

I don't understand the comment about why God would prevent people from getting diseases which kill us. How else are we meant to die? Even old people die OF something, a weak heart or whatever.

The world isn't big enough for us to keep reproducing and for no-one to die. So genetic blips and mutations are built into us so that we do die.

I can totally see why some one who has a child die of cancer could utterly lose their faith and rage at God. Completely. But I guess I feel like I will have the chance to ask why after I die. It seems so bloody unfair, and it challenges lots of peoples faith though. And I don't blame them whatsoever.

Madhairday · 09/01/2020 17:35

God could create a perfect world of peace and love, the world isn't perfect - why would he choose it to be that way and not stop bad things happening? Why wouldn't he create humans who dont get sick? That's exactly my point.*

These are really important questions, and unfortunately I think some Christians tend to try and throw catch all pat answers that don't actually work in the reality of suffering. So, the free will thing - I do think it is all to do with this but think there are nuances to the whole question. I think we are broken because of free will - because we have choice. If we had no choice we would have no capacity to love, we would be preprogrammed to a certain setting and it would lead to a world without joy, because it wouldn't be based on our decisions but on our programming. Yet that doesn't give in any way a full answer to the question of theodicy, and I've never found a full answer. Yet I remain convinced of the love of God. I've heard all sorts of answers - Satan did it, Eve did it, we mess up (and we do.) But these give only partial insights into a mystery.

I live with pain. Every day. Sometimes great, shrieking agony. I was that child who had a disease she had nothing to do with causing. I was that child who continued in sickness and pain despite prayer. I'm still that child, really, still asking why, some days. Like today, when it's been too much to bear and I feel like I can't go on much longer like this. I'm being honest here, because as a Christian I do not want to indulge in the pretence that all is ok and we always have answers. I have lots of knowledge about the bible and the early church and that knowledge gives my faith a foundation of rationality, but in the end it is not that knowledge which keeps me believing. It is the experience of a God who gets into the pain with me, over and over again, holding me while I weep. It's the experience of a God who loves beyond measure, who weeps at the brokenness of the world, who longs for restoration. Of a God who this stuff matters to so much that this God did do something in Jesus - not only a life of radical kindness and goodness, but a death which shattered apart mess and pain and crap and sin, and a resurrection which conquered all of those things. It's the fact that God didn't sit apart from human weakness and brokenness, but entered fully into it.

And it's the hope i live in which sustains me through the worst of days, the hope of all being made right, of ultimate justice and mercy and there being no more death or pain or mourning. There promises are not simply ancient words to me and to millions of others, they are a reality, a peace that goes beyond any other peace I've ever known, a joy that warms me more than any other joy I've known, a hope that bubbles up and is too beautiful for words to describe.

I know, I know. I know it doesn't seem to make sense, in the light of what we see around us. I'm painfully aware of how it is not simply something that can be weighed and proven. But I think human capacity is for so much more than empirical evidence. We have capacity to love, for great creativity, for beauty. All of those things are intrinsic to the human condition and for me it is God who makes sense of all of those things.

Of course I get upset. Angry, even, about my pain and the pain of others. But I've also found something that soothes the pain, that burrows far beneath and brings me into a different place, a different perspective. In worship of God I find freedom, I find out who I am and who I am supposed to be, I find something more. So much more.

And it is a mystery, therefore attempting to answer the epicurean question ends up with me spilling a whole load of emotion instead of a nice well-balanced answer. Sorry Grin

YasssKween · 09/01/2020 17:45

I don't understand the comment about why God would prevent people from getting diseases which kill us. How else are we meant to die? Even old people die OF something, a weak heart or whatever.

Yes @sirching but in my mind if god was real then he would set a standard, say everyone lives until they are old and then passes away peacefully with loved ones around them.

Saying well how are we meant to die, we have to at some point, doesnt explain why an eight year old would get cancer and be in excruciating pain.

As I said if you believe that it's your prerogative but it's frustrating from the outside to hear god is love and light but allows children to be in terrible pain and murderers to live long life.

Faith is accepting things don't make sense but you believe regardless I guess, I just wish people who believe wouldn't try to rationalise it as if non believers are being illogical eg well everyone has to die some time.

Stabbitha · 09/01/2020 17:49

What is a coming? Is it god showing himself?

YasssKween · 09/01/2020 17:50

Thank you @madhairday for explaining your personal experience, I really appreciate you understanding that it doesn't make sense to people but that you still believe it. I respect that.

I guess for me the human spirit is separate to believing in a deity. I've been through some terrible times and am now suffering from a life limiting condition BUT I think the fact I can still live people, laugh and take the piss out of myself is amazing. I own that and have worked bloody hard to maintain it.

People are incredible and I feel personally it does me a disservice when believers tell me it's because of a god. My inner strength is hard fought and hard learned and I own it and wear it like a badge of honour.

I was raised Catholic but am no longer religious and a good example of how my absence of belief in god doesn't mean I am not in awe of the human spirit is this - I want my future kids to be kind to people because they want to be kind, not because they are scared of hell or aiming for heaven.

Life on earth is enough for me and I'm making the most of it no matter what - personally I don't find solace in religion but if people do then that's their choice. I just don't like it when people attribute good things to god and bad things to sin. Smile

YasssKween · 09/01/2020 17:51

Typo:

Still love people, obviously!

Madhairday · 09/01/2020 18:13

Thank you, @YasssKween and thank you for sharing some of your experience too. And you should be bloody proud - living with a long term condition is so, so hard, and it takes a lot of bravery to just keep going and to find good in life despite it all. I guess for me my belief that we are created by God doesn't take away from our human achievements and our victories over adversity at all - we can celebrate those things as amazing human beings. For me it gives an extra joy in the midst of it - that we are loved and valued, and our achievements reflect our value and meaning which is intrinsic to all of us - whether believers or not.

And I completely get what you're saying about wanting to teach your kids to be kind for the sake of kindness rather than fear or what we might get out of the next life. Me too - I do not value kindness because of my hope of eternity, but because I believe kindness is the best of humanity and brings good to others. Heaven does not motivate me so much as a sense of what we humans can be and what good we can bring - for me, eternity is such a glorious hope because of being with the God I believe breathed good into us, and into the world - it's a hope inspired by the joy of my faith. But what I do here on earth is not so much because of that as inspired to be the better version of me (and please don't read this as saying unbelievers cannot aspire to better, not at all) - and also driven to follow the teachings of Jesus. As for it being due to fear of hell - well, I don't believe in hell as eternal torment, I believe it is not a sustainable biblical position.

SirChing · 09/01/2020 18:16

I just wish people who believe wouldn't try to rationalise it as if non believers are being illogical eg well everyone has to die some time

If you read the rest of that post, you would see that I said that I said I dont blame people who struggle with it. And did not say non believers are irrational at all.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 09/01/2020 18:22

Maybe at conception cells didn't form properly and or sometimes the mother to be might not live a healthy lifestyle for example being a drug addict or alcoholic whilst pregnant and could possibly harm the unborn baby and cause birth defects.

Where is the compassion in this viewpoint? Not all unfortunate events are down to human actions.

I find the fact that 23% of people think a second coming could happen v concerning

I find it concerning that anyone would want a Second Coming and a Judgment Day. I think any positive aspects at an individual level would be obliterated by knowing that others were being punished in the harsh ways described in scripture. Even the 'watered-down' punishments of ending up far from God or having your soul obliterated seem unnecessarily harsh if other options are available.

Somanysocks · 09/01/2020 18:25

This thread is just going round and round and round and roundHalo

SirChing · 09/01/2020 19:34

@Madhairday I am so sorry about your pain. And @YasssKween I am so very sorry about your illness too. You sound like an amazing person the way that you are handling it. Flowers for you both.

Its nothing in comparison to you two, but I live with a pain condition, and I have to say, I have never felt that God should stop it.

I suppose it isn't fair, but instead of saying "why me", I have always thought "why not me?"

I can honestly say that my condition has given me as much as it has taken away. It has meant that I had to give up the career I loved, but the flipside is being there for my daughter.

I am well aware that if my condition was going to kill me and rob my daughter of a mother, that I may feel very differently. It already takes me away from her in some ways, as I can't do certain things and am often bedbound. But then I also think she is learning compassion and that life can be unfair sometimes, so I don't know.

She does ask me why God doesn't answer her prayers and take my pain away. And that's hard to answer. I have to be honest and tell her that it has both good and bad things about being ill. But that I would never swap being well for the time I get to spend with her. I do understand why she doesn't really believe though. I have this condition following getting glandular fever at 19 and pregnancy made it worse (which my daughter doesn't and will never know). I have never blamed God for it as I feel like it's a random thing.

Flowers to all living with challenging health issues.

YasssKween · 09/01/2020 20:05

@sirching @madhairday ThanksThanksThanks

speakball · 09/01/2020 20:05

My point is we as humans were designed
And only a higher being can do that.

Any evidence?

AlternativeReality · 09/01/2020 20:21

Personally I believe that man invented God because they wanted there to be some accountability.

After all, if we only live this one life, then some might not consider the implications for themselves if they transgress. But if people are led to believe that they will be accountable for their actions in the earthly life when they reach the afterlife, they might be more likely to behave differently.

Added to which many find comfort in the thought that they are not going through hardship alone. They find comfort in the thought that someone is with them through the hard times, and that enhances their sense of belief.

AutumnCrow · 09/01/2020 20:24

And God created telomeres.

And He said, Let there be death.

MullinerSpec · 09/01/2020 20:26

Was there a first coming?

Walkingdeadfangirl · 09/01/2020 20:58

Perhaps a believer in the 2nd coming could elucidate on the ops question?

In Christianity, apart from what has been copied from older religions (and what has been on Netflix), where has this idea of a 2nd coming originated from and where can we find any reliable information on it?

The only clue I have is revelations. So in the old testament a wrathful God drowns humanity as a warning. In the new testament a repentant God kills himself as a warning. In revelations God goes back to being wrathful and promises to kill a lot of people in the future as a warning.

What is the point of the 3rd coming 2nd coming and why couldn't he have done whatever he needed to do during the 1st coming? I really dont get the point of it all?

Hopefully someone can explain, are we supposed to assume revelations is a literal prophesy?

Bumpsadaisie · 09/01/2020 21:07

Nearly had a second coming last week but didn't quite manage. DH is working on it.

Oh ...?