To ask if you think there will be a second coming?

[LuluBellaBlue]

This is inspired by the new Netflix show Messiah, about a second coming.

I really hope this doesn’t upset or offend anyone and people can share their beliefs and thoughts openly and without prejudice or judgement as I know this can be very sensitive for some people.

Following on from —binge— watching this series I did a bit of googling and it seems both Christian and Muslim regions predict this. (Not researched if any others do yet)

I’m not very well informed about different regions but the concept of this programme has really interested me, I find it fascinating that this could, maybe? actually happen!

Do you think there could be a second coming?!

(And what would it actually mean for the world? A rise in consciousness? Mass healing???)

YABU - no don't be so daft!
YANBU - yes, this could happen, why not?!

So when kids are abused God is horrified and heartbroken too, and is having to practically sit on his hands not to do something about it, but he can't. The second he intercedes, it has a butterfly effect with massive ramifications.

^But God is gutted at what is happening, hears our prayers, and wants to be with us and love us, hoping that we turn to him so that we can eventually go home to him and have no more pain.*

That sort of made sense to me. Satan is in charge on Earth and has corrupted man by stealth. God can't intercede and break his agreement as then we are all Satan's. Thays what was explained to me anyway.

That's how it was explained to me why God can't intercede.

I could well be wrong about that, but I am pretty sure that's how it was explained to me.

My ex husbands family were all Baptists and quite into the nitty gritty of it all. Their minister explained it to me.

'Interrogate your sources' is the first thing any university student is taught. Not 'someone vaguely connected with an ex explained it to me, and I'm inexplicably happy to go along with this random's poorly-conceived mental gymnastics as an explanation for why a supposedly omnipotent deity is 'heartbroken' by suffering inflicted on the innocent that he can't or won't alleviate'.

@SirChing "what makes you think that people don't have the brains to decide for themselves?" well that's a common response, but most recruiting is of children/young adults of course who lack the knowledge and experience to know they are being misled.

It's important to let them know that what are presented as facts known to everyone are actually myth and propaganda and disputed by many other people. To encourage them to check for themselves.

I try and encourage people for example to read the whole bible. A lot of Christians got their theology from Christmas Carols and Nativity plays.

"Why do you feel the need to profess with certainty that which you cannot know for sure?" Atheism isn't the claim that we have proof that no super powerful beings exist. It's the lack of belief in the guys selling their one.

There have been 1000s of religions and quite a few current ones and none of them have offered any proof. At most one could be real so we know the others are scams don't we. It's not reasonable to pick one at random and just go along with it.

I've always been fascinated by the Free Will/God can't intervene argument.
Obviously a good god could not ignore the suffering of so many children so it must be true that interfering even once would wreck everything for that person if not for everyone.

Which is a bit of a shame for those who met him as Jesus and were helped or healed by him as they have lost their chance of heaven.

Also all the people in the Old Testament who got direct help. He stopped the sun for Joshua. He led the Israelites through the wilderness. He protected Daniel from lions. He gave Samson super-strength and protected Elisha from children mocking his bald head by having them ripped apart by bears.

I think those kids would say that counted as interfering but it was for Elisha too.

Poor old Elisha. Did he know what he was losing?

I stopped believing in God round about the same time I realised Santa wasn't real. It seemed obvious. I remember being quite young and through difficult times in childhood, hating God so much for the things that happened to me & my family, so I don't think we ever got off to a good start anyway.

I have a problem with the church, preaching kindness and encouraging others to help the needy, when they have enough money to end world poverty.

However, I do wish I believed in God. I think it must bring comfort to know that during hard times, someone is with you and esp in death, to know your loved ones are in a better place and that you will see them again. Sometimes I wonder if it's not a lot of pressure too though, to have pure thoughts etc sounds exhausting.

I seen something once and someone else did too, the same thing and at the exact same time. I have no explanation for it, but I still can't believe.

I think Jesus existed, but I don't believe he was the son of God.

I think a second coming, God and Jesus are incredibly improbable, but nothing is impossible.

whether anyone believes or not we'll all find out eventually

How will we find out? I mean, obviously we'll all find out if he DOES turn up. But how do we 'find out' the opposite scenario, that of him NOT turning up? At what point would christians decide he wasn't coming back (ergo hadn't even been before.) Year 3000, 4000, 4000000?

so it must be true that interfering even once would wreck everything for that person if not for everyone.

Yeah. Imagine I saw a paedohile raping a child but chose to ignore the child's pleas because it would harm theirs and the rapist's free will. And just hoped that he'd get punished for it by god later (assuming he doesn't repent) God does that every day, many, many times.

then God can't suddenly start intercepting things which happen on Earth as that means he is then reneging on his agreement with Satan in the battle for our souls

Jesus did a tonne of healing on earth. Did he inadvertently send them to hell by helping them and therefore reneging on this agreement he made with a creature he made (for reasons that I've not heard explained).

"how bored have you got to be to sit and pick holes in something that you totally don't believe in anyway?"

It's not Jesus, god etc I'm interested in, it's what people think of Jesus, god etc and how they are able to hold those beliefs when they are invariably contradictory, mutually exclusive and not backed up by evidence. That's fascinating

I find it fascinating too Speakball.
Why do people need Jesus in their lives?
Why can't some people life a good, moral life by being kind to others and forgiving without Jesus/God?

Interrogate your sources' is the first thing any university student is taught

Well aware of that having two degrees thanks.

1. you have zero idea about the written information I was provided with at the time
2. YOU may feel unable to believe something as personal and intangible as faith without primary sources, but that doesn't mean you get to set the standard that others should demand that in their private life

Atheism isn't the claim that we have proof that no super powerful beings exist. It's the lack of belief in the guys selling their one

Well aware of that. But I wasn't responding to general claims of atheism, I was responding to a certain poster's assertions. I am well aware that the balance of proof lies with the person making the claims. And my general response was a) you can't prove something that is a matter of faith and b) the poster was demanding proof, forgetting that even if we could, why would we bother?

It's not reasonable to pick one at random and just go along with it

Sounds like AIBU!

Most people give it more thought than that, but if they don't, it's entirely up to them. You may think they ABU, I doubt that they care that you think that.

I have a problem with the church, preaching kindness and encouraging others to help the needy, when they have enough money to end world poverty.

You are presumably talking about the catholic church and the church of England because there are many other churches out there that are certainly not rich and have to carefully balance the books, but who still do a large amount for the community and homeless etc.

Which is a bit of a shame for those who met him as Jesus and were helped or healed by him as they have lost their chance of heaven

Jesus was entirely human as well as simultaneously God. He was given his powers by God but was here in a human format. Therefore it wasn't God himself interceding otherwise it would have been purely God who was here.

Also all the people in the Old Testament who got direct help. He stopped the sun for Joshua. He led the Israelites through the wilderness. He protected Daniel from lions. He gave Samson super-strength and protected Elisha from children mocking his bald head by having them ripped apart by bears

Yep. Because one of the most fundamental tenets of Christianity is that the New Testament and birth of Jesus brought about a new covenant. In the OT, God and Satan used to speak to people directly, but people turned away and stopped hearing God so he sent Jesus.

But how do we 'find out' the opposite scenario, that of him NOT turning up?

Well if it's true, I believe we will find out when we did.

Why can't some people life a good, moral life by being kind to others and forgiving without Jesus/God?

Who says they can't? Some of us have the ability to do that both with and without God in our lives, but find that following Jesus makes it easier for us to do so in the face of hostility.

It's like the earlier point about the Aussie fires, "don't send prayer, send aid", I sent both, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

You are presumably talking about the catholic church and the church of England because there are many other churches out there that are certainly not rich and have to carefully balance the books, but who still do a large amount for the community and homeless etc

I totally agree with this, though even the CofE churches near me run food banks, asylum seeker outreaches and provide job opportunities in their cafes for people facing struggles getting back into paid employment after health issues/homelessness etc. So while the hypocrisy of being a Christian but doing sod all to help anyone else does my tits in, that is far from true in lots of churches. Sure, people could set this stuff up without religion, but then it's the non believers who need to be asked why if they don't do so.

Yeah. Imagine I saw a paedohile raping a child but chose to ignore the child's pleas because it would harm theirs and the rapist's free will. And just hoped that he'd get punished for it by god later (assuming he doesn't repent) God does that every day, many, many times

I have explained why he cannot. If you can't understand then I can't help you.

As an aside, if you are Speakout in disguise, I do hope you had a good Xmas in the end. I saw your post and thought the people who tried to hand you your arse about it were very unfair

it's what people think of Jesus

But why do you care? You don't believe in God or Jesus. Fine. I couldn't care less.

I get that in the UK Christianity unfairly impinges on non Christians at an institional level, and totally agree that that is unfair and that our society should be secular with religion being a private matter.

But on a personal, individual level, why do you give a single shit about what people believe when their personal beliefs don't affect you? Like I say, protest about how it permeates society and I will be next to you with my banner - it should never effect schooling/House of Lords etc - but otherwise, I am mystified as to why anyone remotely cares what Christians believe if they think it's horseshit.

I give no shits if people don't believe, I am not here to evangelize about it, and while I may answer specific questions about the religion (if I know the answer), I don't feel the need to explain my personal faith to anyone.

God imo couldn’t intercede as it would effect the intricate balance of predictability and unpredictability. It would lead to a completely predictable world. This world with all its wonders and horrors couldn’t exist. Heaven is a totally predictable world where nothing awful happens.

how bored have you got to be to sit and pick holes in something that you totally don't believe in anyway?

Religion isn't boring, it's just untrue. It would be pretty odd not to be interested in something that has had such a profound influence on human beings and our history and politics tbh.

Of all the many things that make me not believe in a religion, the top one has to be this: There have been so many religions in the world, in which people have believed utterly. How likely is it really that all of the gazillion others were wrong, but the one that you (by pure chance of where and when you were born) believe in is the only true one. I mean, come on...

Lazylinguist, the belief in a higher existence is pretty universal. The details of that belief is generally although not always dictated unsurprisingly by the culture they come from. Most religions demand loyalty to the belief.

I.e. it's exactly like all other superstitions. Invented by people who don't understand the world, and so invent gods and other fairies etc. to explain things they don't understand. The beauty of religion is that the strong can demand loyalty and obedience and so use it to cement their power.

@lazylinguist And @CardinalSin That's obviously what you believe and that's great. Why do you care what anyone else believes? That's what I don't understand.

Thank you for the patience and answers SirChing

Unfortunately as an atheist there is nothing I can do to 'believe' in a God/Devil, their is just no evidence that convinces me. In the trillion to one chance their is a second coming and any God/Devil convinces me it is real.... I will expect a lot of answers & probably a lot of penance for all their crimes mentioned in the Bible.

Then I will expect a dam good explanation from them about what I get out of worshipping them for eternity. Yes turning it down might result in death but their is a lot of things worse than death, I certainly wont be taking their word for it.

I dont even know anyone that wants to live forever.

@SirChing, I’ve only skimmed the thread, but perhaps they’re just noting the logical fallacies, underthinking, hearsay, platitudes, misapprehensions etc on which your position appears to be based? You do your faith a massive disservice.

SirChing - Once your religions cease trying to tell/enforce me or other people into doing things as they want, including influencing politics, restricting our access to schools, deciding when we can and can't go shopping etc. etc., then I might lose some interest in what you believe.

As it is, mostly it's an interest in why people would believe this patent rubbish. It's an entirely fascinating area of study.