To ask if you think there will be a second coming?

[LuluBellaBlue]

This is inspired by the new Netflix show Messiah, about a second coming.

I really hope this doesn’t upset or offend anyone and people can share their beliefs and thoughts openly and without prejudice or judgement as I know this can be very sensitive for some people.

Following on from —binge— watching this series I did a bit of googling and it seems both Christian and Muslim regions predict this. (Not researched if any others do yet)

I’m not very well informed about different regions but the concept of this programme has really interested me, I find it fascinating that this could, maybe? actually happen!

Do you think there could be a second coming?!

(And what would it actually mean for the world? A rise in consciousness? Mass healing???)

YABU - no don't be so daft!
YANBU - yes, this could happen, why not?!

Rhetoric such as "weakness" or "perfect" are christian ideas

They are also concepts that exist far outside of Christianity too. We can have a weak knee and perfect teeth. They are words used within language so I am unsure what your point is?

No, I wouldn't apply such concepts to animals which are unable to self reflect. They are human concepts. Why would I?

@SirChing "if Jesus was stood in front of you, doing so massive miracle that left you in no doubt whatsoever about who he was"

If Jesus, Satan (+all other options) were stood in front of me (proving who they were) & each made their pitch with proof, then I would accept that. But apart from yourself I have not met any religious folks that would say that is what the second coming is.

My question then is why does God/Jesus need to force us to make that choice, it seems totally unnecessary & cruel. And what happens to people who believe in other Gods? (like it says in the 1st commandments)

What is happening here is people being smart with language.

Being kind to others... such a simple concept yet some look for flaws in others to make themselves look/feel better.
A constructive conversation can happen between individuals. Agree to disagree.
Live and let live.
Maybe that's the difference between those who have faith and those who don't

I just can't get past the idea that a non-believer who has devoted his life to helping the less fortunate will burn in eternal damnation whilst Fred West can go to heaven for a last minute deference to the lord.

My question then is why does God/Jesus need to force us to make that choice, it seems totally unnecessary & cruel. And what happens to people who believe in other Gods? (like it says in the 1st commandments)

Again, I am not saying this is what I personally believe, I haven't decided on that, but the Christian theory is that all the other Gods won't show up as they aren't real. I'm not saying that it right and fair, just explaining the theology of people who take it literally.

So the only ones who show up are Jesus and the Anti-Christ. And loads of people will love the Anti-Christ as he is a deceptive bugger who will promise all things to everyone and people will be swayed by his promises of instant riches and really material, transient stuff. So Satan will be far more tempting for a load of people than Jesus stood there preaching kindness, but not promising to pay their mortgage off. So it comes down to people thinking about the greater good and choosing that, ultimately.

As to why this is necessary in the first place: I shall tell you the thinking about it but don't blame me if it sounds mad or it bores you shitless

Ok, when Satan was in Heaven with God, when the Earth was made, he was really close to God. Then Satan thought it was unfair that he could only act on the powers and authority of God, and started to get arsey about it. They had loads of arguments and Satan kept pushing it and wouldn't accept that God was in charge by virtue of being, well, God.

So, Satan wouldn't do what God asked and was being a pretty rubbish angel, and he wouldn't be persuaded otherwise by God. So, God had to kick him out.

Satan came down to Earth and started acting in the opposite way to God. They kept arguing. In the end a deal was made. Satan knew that God doesn't control the actions of people on Earth. Otherwise they would just be like Gods personal playmobile people and what would be the point of them? So, he gave us free will, and had enough faith in us that we would follow him anyway.

Satan decided that he was FAR more appealing than God, and that people would want to follow him. So God said "fine, let's see what happens, if they follow you then you are in charge and if they follow me then I am".

God used to speak directly to humans (like Moses etc) but over time we turned away. God was frustrated because he could see us winding up with Satan who by this point was really rather a cunt.

In those days under Jewish law, people atoned for their sins through sacrificing animals. The bigger the animals, the bigger the sacrifice abd the absolution. All these being flogged in the Temple for vast amounts of cash, so the poor could never hope to atone like rich people could.

So, God sends Jesus to say "hang on, this is corrupt, everyone has access to God, not just the rich, who have been corrupted by greed at the hands of Satan".

God made a deal with Satan. That Instead of having all the souls of the people on the Earth who followed Satan, Satan could have his son instead, but he couldn't have The souls of anyone who ever believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

The souls of people who had followed Satan were separated from God permanently when they died. Satan thought about it, decided it was the ultimate two fingers up to God, and said "yeah, I'll trade all the human souls for your Son". So, Jesus gets crucified and is separated from God (hence "My God why have you forsaken me").

BUT what God knows and Satan doesn't, is that God has made Jesus special, so that he can actually come back from being dead. But Satan wasn't aware of that when he made the deal.

So Jesus comes back, Satan is truly pissed off as he has agreed that he will let go all of the people who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. People believe Jesus is real due to being resurrected, and anyone who believes gets to go to Heaven.

SO, Satan is still pissed off and trying to get people to not believe in Jesus, as part of his monumental hissy fit with God, but as per the deal, it's either God or Satan that get people. Hence people having to choose.

Apologies for the length, and I have probably got loads of that wrong, but it was how it was explained to me.

I just can't get past the idea that a non-believer who has devoted his life to helping the less fortunate will burn in eternal damnation whilst Fred West can go to heaven for a last minute deference to the lord

I struggle with that too. It doesn't seem fair. I have kind of just accepted that I won't know why in this life but hope to find out later.

SirChing

You do know that Satan is a christian invention?

In fact christianity would have no relevance without satan.
That bogeyman under the stairs caertainly serves a purpose to keep the sheep in check.

SirChing you haven't really answered my questions though.
I still don't get how you know god loves you.
So a homeless person would no longer be homeless if s/he believed in god?
And what exactly is s lady .. is it a higher female and a woman a lower femsle and only 'ladies' get your respect ??
"they don't feel like they are so it would be inaccurate"
If a person doesn't feel like a woman maybe they are trans. Has that ever occured to you ?

FFS calm down people and lay off @SirChing ! You are all grown adults but are acting like a pack of wild animals and should be ashamed of yourselves! As I said before everyone is entitled to their beliefs whatever they are!

No idea on spirituality (am agnostic and don’t want to offend anyone’s beliefs), but it does seem that the idea of a Second Coming is a great way to stop people from organising themselves against injustice or suffering.

“Yes, it’s terrible now, but be patient and someone perfect will be along to fix it” means that people can patiently put up with all sorts because they have faith in something better. If there’s no-one coming then people are more likely to start solving problems and challenging bad governance themselves.

@speakout

Of course Satan is a Christian invention. The whole lot of it is.

Referring to people who follow those beliefs as being sheep seems a little rude.

Don't you think that maybe some of the problem has been how people have abused the message of religion to justify awful behaviour towards others?

People who have been brought up in really religious families who have used religion as a stick to beat their kids with, totally missing out the message that love is the most important thing of all, are bound to grow up to dislike religion and feel that it fucked with their head and worldview (thinking of my ex husband here).

But that some believers use religion to do terrible things, is no indication of whether the messages of Jesus are valid or not, it's just an indication that the person behaving like that is horrible.

Same as people who use religion as an excuse for war. If they truly believed, they wouldn't be out there killing people in the name of the religion to start with.

I honestly think that people's personal experiences of religion colour their views so much, and it can be tempting to lash out at all those who believe, rather than the ones who may have used religion to hurt us. But we aren't all the same.

If I was a sheep, I would be a fundamentalist as the people who influenced me were. But I am not, because I see loads of stuff as metaphorical rather than literal. We don't all believe the same.

@roisinagusniamh

SirChing you haven't really answered my questions though.
I still don't get how you know god loves you

By a physical feeling of love that I get when I pray. As if someone who loves me is in the room. I am not saying more as it is deeply personal.

So a homeless person would no longer be homeless if s/he believed in god?

Not what I said at all. I said that God loves them still. God can't make everything all right for us. He can support us and love us through it, but we have free will. We aren't playmobile people for him to piss around with.

And what exactly is s lady .. is it a higher female and a woman a lower femsle and only 'ladies' get your respect ??

Not at all and I have never said that. It's an alternative term meaning woman, adult female etc. There is no judgement attached to it. I just refer to people how they want to be referred to.

"they don't feel like they are so it would be inaccurate"
If a person doesn't feel like a woman maybe they are trans. Has that ever occured to you ?

Of course it has! I have nursed quite a few trans people. Like everyone else, they are addressed by their preferred terminology.

@Butterfly98 Thank you. That means a lot

@SirChing..beautifully put!!
God used to speak directly to humans (like Moses etc) but over time we turned away. God was frustrated because he could see us winding up with Satan who by this point was really rather a cunt

I might use this in my songster devotion next week 😂

Cant vote for some reason but would vote yes. I believe in bodily resurrection in Christ and the coming of heaven on earth. I believe we sleep after death until the day comes. I believe that we will see him and mother Mary again.

I hope and pray that all souls will be saved even those that don't believe in Jesus.

All the major religions essentially worship one God (even the Hindu tradition if ypu look into it) but Jews and Muslims have different takes on Christ. I think we will all find a way to come together at the end.

I read a lot of the bible largely metaphorically e.g. the nativity, revelation, genesis etc but I do think Christ was resurrected as thats the best explanation for the way in which Christianity spread. That and the ability to experience Jesus that those alive today can access.

@SirChing - your posts are really well thought out and interesting. I'm not sure why some people have been so harsh in their responses to you, as you've been pretty reasonable in your responses.

I have been searching for answers for many years, and although I could pick holes in some of your logic/arguments, I enjoy reading posts from someone who seems to have real faith. This is an interesting discussion.

I‘m talking as an amateur theology student here .
The Romans were good record keepers and Jesus of Nazareth existed and was put to to death . The backstory is too complicated to go into here.
Christians believe he was more than a historical figure but the Messiah - therefore believe the promise that he will return to Earth in glory - that’s been awaited by the earliest Christians . However that will mean the end of the world as we know it - Armageddon . A new earth will replace it after all the dead souls are resurrected and judged on their life record . No one is in heaven now - but at the second coming all the dead will be in effect sorted out . That’s the basic premise of it .

I believe

You're backtracking SirChing.
You made a comment upthread about how you wouldn't call me a lady due to my comments to you.
Well, that very judgemental of you.
And......watch out, here come Butterfly to defend SirChing again!
But has yet to offer an opinion on the Second Coming!

What I don't get is people praying to God if he's so great he would do something, it's like praying for Aussie fires to stop, yet he caused them in first place, eithier he's good or useless.

Live your life good that's it no afterlife no nothing just be a good person that's not so hard.

@tiredvommachine

I have to ask, what is a songster devotion? And Will Satan being "really rather a cunt" fit into it ok?

Well he's pretty useless at the moment!
People sending 'thoughts and prayers' crack me up too.
Send money for aid!

@SirChing

all the other Gods won't show up as they aren't real So why is 'Gods' first commandment, written in stone, a warning to not worship any of those other Gods? on pain of death

And loads of people will love the Anti-Christ as he is a deceptive bugger who will promise all things to everyone The same could be said of Jesus/God, how are we supposed to know who is telling the truth?

Satan wouldn't do what God asked and was being a pretty rubbish angel, and he wouldn't be persuaded otherwise by God You mean Satan expressed free will? Doesn't make God look good does it?

They kept arguing. In the end a deal was made So God mad a deal with the devil, why is it ok for him to do that and not us? What is he hiding?

So, he gave us free will I am confused, I thought Adam & Eve took free will against Gods permission, and all humanity was punished for eternity with original sin.

God made a deal with Satan
Seriously? Why is it ok for God to make a deal with him and not us? Double standards?

Satan could have his son instead
Now I am not a theist but where in the Bible does it say God gave himself to Satan?

what God knows and Satan doesn't, is that God has made Jesus special, so that he can actually come back from being dead. But Satan wasn't aware of that when he made the deal So God lied and broke a deal he made? That makes him a cheating liar.

So Jesus comes back, Satan is truly pissed off as he has agreed that he will let go all of the people who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Where is the evidence that Satan is the bad guy?

People believe Jesus is real due to being resurrected If only their was evidence he was resurrected?

and anyone who believes gets to go to Heaven If only their was evidence of a Heaven.

Satan is still pissed off and trying to get people to not believe in Jesus That doesn't make sense. The two are a package deal, if you believe in one you believe in the other. Personally I dont find either credible.

It's either God or Satan that get people. Hence people having to choose Cant we choose neither, why the need to choose?

@Defenbaker Aw thank you. The bits that sound illogical are probably how I have explained them. And also the fact that some of it doesn't seem to make sense (particularly with someone like me explaining it). I have kind of reconciled myself to the fact that I will never have all the answers.

"The Romans were good record keepers and made no record that Jesus of Nazareth existed and was put to to death"

*Fixed that for you...