to think rising levels of neuro diverse children in society is partly due to rising ages of pregnant mothers?

[staydazzling]

im not condeming anything here btw, i would like to make that clear. and i know this may not go down well on here, donning hard hat but whenever theres discussions about how neurological diversity in children has risen ASD, ADHD etc in society, the conversion is often about MMR Ipads or diet, discipline etc which of course all important variables but i feel its unhelpful that a lot of would be mothers are not informed of the risk past 35, of downs syndrome, autism etc, its obviously much better financially to be older and have a family. aibu to feel its the elephant inthe room regarding rising levels of children with ASD, ADHD, Etc??

Fuck me, what other random facts could we associate with autism? There’s more people on the planet so it’s due to overcrowding or biomass. It’s hardly ever diagnosed in developing countries so it’s due to central heating. Is it a side effect of more TV channels or twerking? There’s more cars on the road so is it due to walking less?

Personally I think you could see a direct comparison between the number of Autism cases diagnosed in an area and the number of Costa outlets. I’m basing this on no facts whatsoever but you people who drink takeaway coffee ought to stop just in case my theory is right.

There is no rise in numbers of people having ASD just the number diagnosed - why? Firstly - Kanner in 1943 gave the original name & diagnosis for this as a separate entity of the most profound form But because of the asylum system & the lack of special education there was less impetus for parents to require a separate diagnosis - Aspergers Syndrome (as described by Asperger in 1944 in Austria during ww2) was not taken up as part of the diagnostic criteria because of the Nazi's medical experiments & killing of disabled people. In the late 70's Lorna Wing et al were doing research in UK about LD & they noted a group of children who did not have LD per sec but who did conform to Aspergers description - she among others opened the way to Aspergers being considered part of the diagnostic criteria but it wasn't till some time later (DSM IV) that it was. However, many doctors still believed that ASD was caused by bad parenting & in reality it was the combination of the opening of the Asylums & growth of special education that made parents more proactive plus the wonderful internet & organisations like NAS - Many adults with ASD were not diagnosed & many doctors wouldtell you they didn't see the point (I had that said to me in the '90 re dd & that another point dr saw it as amale issue & many wouldn't accept that presentation is different even though disorders like schizophrenia show this) in 2009 the Autism Act went through which was established because many adults with asd who needed help & support could get diagnosis & therefore couldn't get help. Of course this sounds like its simple to get diagnosis & support at all ages - & believe me it most certainly isn't .

ConwyGhost - Speaking for ADHD and not ASD; the difficult hyperactive children got fucked out of special schools or borstal and usually ended up in prison.

Even now 25-40% of adult male prisoners fulfil the criteria for ADHD whether it was previously diagnosed or not.

It's a scandal.

DS has a diagnosis for ASD. He is very high functioning and leads pretty much a normal life for his age but we have already had school refusal and anxieties around school. I had him at just under 32. DS is the mirror image of DH, and, though undiagnosed, DH is convinced he is also on the spectrum.
Your assumptions make no sense to me.

Turnyourlightsdownlo - i was about to mention the prison statistics too. And the literacy rate for prisoners is very low.

@Shelby2010 funnily enough your almost right - Bearman & KIng et al 2010 did a series of papers/journal article trying initially to establish whether there was an environmental factor - they found it was linked to social connections & information passed at schools about expert doctors in autism & there was a link to other papers about doctors & teachers attitudes to poorer(ethnic/black!) families where the assumption was that it was down to poor behaviour (mind think private medical care in the USA & access to experts if your poor) I have a couple of books on research on autism treatment & diagnosis in other parts of the world - & how dc are treated/accepted/ & how parents hide the dc from society because of shame etcetc

I know three people who have dc with autism and were all under 30 when they had them (partners young too) so your assumption doesn't really stack up there.

Agree with other pps who say it is more likely to do with an increase in diagnosis of these conditions in recent years.

Grasspigeons: and it doesn't stop once they're actually in prison. I've gone into prisons where literally every man held in segregration (which is just awful anyway but in some prisons its literally inhumane) for disruptive/violent/disciplinary offences committed in prison would fulfil criteria for ADHD.

Hoik

Invisibility doesn't mean something doesn't exist.

You said that we didn't see them in schools because they weren't on schools. Now you say they were in schools but just not diagnosed. This goes against what I was saying. My point is that there are many autistic children with violent tendencies in schools these days (aling with many who don't stand out for any obvious reason). There always would have been autistic children in schools, particularly undiagnosed back in the day, but there are huge numbers now of mentally able children with emotional dysregulation etc who would not have been diagnosed as autistic years ago. They would not have bedn in special schools because they seem to have been aimed at children with poor mental function. They woukd nit have been homeschooled due to mothers unable to stay at home (particularly in the 80s) which leaves truancy/exclusion. I can't believe there were (on average) around 2 children per class of 30 that were truant/excluded from school. These are the numbers of children we see nowadays with autism who are distuptive in our children's classes. There are countless other chikdren in thise classes with undiagnosed or very mild autism.

"there are many autistic children with violent tendencies in schools these days"

I think you mean children whose needs are not being met and so can't cope.

Yes, absolutely agree that ASD is genetic, but are environmental factors (pollution, maternal glucose control [eg babies born to women with poorly controlled diabetes], etc) triggering the genes in some cases? I think it has to be a very complex combination of a genetic predisposition and a large number of triggers, some of which we are only just beginning to understand.

Focussing efforts on education and better understanding for NT people would good, IMO. I know how ignorant I am, and most of what I do understand is from reading sites like this and trying to listen.

AtomicRabbit bravo! One of the best posts about autism I’ve ever read on here ❤️❤️

There have been twin studies etc & there seems to be a genetic link ( says she with knowledge of at least a couple of cousins & dd within spectrum) People with ASD can make real positive impact & have a good quality of life (whether totally independent or requiring support) but never forget that some people are far more profoundly affected & require intense (& hopefully loving) support throughout their lives. Many parents have fought to get their dc help for living & the support they require for their everyday lives - please don't discount that. For many people it is disabling.

I was 21 when my son was born, he has ADHD and 'many ASD traits'.

There's a significant amount of ASD in his dads family, I'm very certain there's a link.

I also had to take medications while pregnant which could potentially be linked, but of course we will never know.

People who are autistic are very happy being autistic, especially among other autistic people.

I wish this were universally true. My teenage son is very depressed about being autistic, even among other autistic people.

And yes, I agree it’s genetic, but I’m not sure it’s only genetic because I can’t find any signs of it in my family before my own generation. This is why I suspect that there may also be environmental factors.

I agree that people like my son have a lot to offer the world. I wish the world were more accommodating. At the same time I would like to understand better what has led to the situation in which we find ourselves.

My parents were 25 & 29 when they had my siblings. Both have ASD.

My mum is most probably ASD and going by the descriptions of my grandad (mums side) he was as well.

Anecdotally, the people I know who have happened to have severe ASD did have much older fathers but obviously I’m not a scientist.

I think it’s a combination of things but they main reason being that more children are being diagnosed.

I don't know the reason but so many children appear to have ASD etc these days. When I was a child in the 1950s there may have been a couple of children in a class that were 'different' (we didn't have a name for it back then) but nothing like the numbers apparent today, even allowing for medical advances.

My son gets depressed, but he says it’s because when he’s himself it makes it difficult to fit in.

He has no problem with how he is, just other people’s reaction to it.

I agree it’s genetic, but I’m not sure it’s only genetic because I can’t find any signs of it in my family before my own generation. This is why I suspect that there may also be environmental factors.

It could be created by a combination of genetics which hadn’t happened before you and your partner created your son.

My neighbours have a child with a rare genetic disorder. Nothing like this has ever happened in their family before and apparently the chances of two people having the genes which cause it, coming together and having a child is about 1 in 5 million. Their older child has autism which isn’t anywhere in their family either.

Advancing Maternal Age Is Associated
With Increasing Risk for Autism: A Review
and Meta-Analysis

The results of this meta-analysis support an association between advancing maternal age and risk of autism. The RR increased monotonically with increasing maternal age. The association persisted after the effects of paternal age and other potential confounders had been considered, supporting an independent relation between higher maternal age and autism. J. Am. Acad. Child Adolesc. Psychiatry, 2012;51(5):477–486.

This meta analysis looked at over 30,000 kids across all the studies. Here is the link if you want to read the whole paper

web.math.princeton.edu/~sswang/sandin_reichenberg12_maternal-age-ASD-metaanalysis.pdf

And here is an excerpt from why they did the study (sorry about the formatting, copying and pasting on an ipad is a complete nightmare)

M ost plausible neurodevelopmental theories of autism focus on genetic factors. However, there is evidence that non-heritable, pre-, or perinatal events, and/or environmental exposures are likely to also have a significant etiological role. Advanced maternal age is one of the most frequently studied risk factors for autism. However, the results from the individual studies are mixed, and the presence of the associations is still disputed.

It is important to examine the relationship between advanced maternal age and autism for two main reasons. First, an association between maternal age and autism may provide clues to the biological pathways leading to autism.

Older maternal age has been associated with increased rates of chromosomal abnormalities of autism focus on genetic factors.
still disputed.
It is important to examine the relationship of obstetric complications, possibly because of uterine muscle dysfunction and diminished blood supply with age. Cumulative Exposure to environmental toxins may also be im- portant for the association between advanced maternal age and neurological and psychiatric disorders

Second age of parenting has been increasing in the United States and Europe in recent de- cades, and an association between maternal age and autism may help to explain the increase in prevalence estimates of autism during the past two decades.
To elucidate the association between ad- vanced maternal age and autism, we conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis of all population-based epidemiological studies pub- lished until June 2011 that investigated the asso- ciation between advancing maternal age and autism

This article is discussed in an editorial by Dr. James C. Harris on page 461.
Supplemental material cited in this article is available online.
JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF CHILD & ADOLESCENT PSYCHIATRY
VOLUME 51 NUMBER 5 MAY 2012 www.jaacap.org 477
SANDIN et al.

Silvery, maybe , I don,t know, read the last page of posts? Dear god.

When I was a child in the 1950s there may have been a couple of children in a class that were 'different' (we didn't have a name for it back then)

There are only a couple in DD’s class. 3 in the whole year.

The numbers haven’t changed.

When I found out that DS1 was dyspraxia, I was shocked as he was exactly like me but in my day it was called clumsy/disorganised/naughty. Then I have realised that my husband is definitely classic Aspergers - he was sent to a child psychiatrist in his early teens - but they decided he wasn’t coping due to his parents divorce. He never got a diagnosis but it has caused him all sorts of problems, namely anxiety. His mother is definitely autistic too. She is incapable of social conversation and interprets things very literally.
So, that’s 4 people in our family who are not neurotypical but only one has a label. Incidentally, DS1 has had epilepsy from birth which is 40% co-morbid with autism yet no one ever mentioned that to us ( it would have been helpful as I ended up having to home educate him due to undiagnosed problems at school which were labelled as naughtiness).