to think rising levels of neuro diverse children in society is partly due to rising ages of pregnant mothers?

[staydazzling]

im not condeming anything here btw, i would like to make that clear. and i know this may not go down well on here, donning hard hat but whenever theres discussions about how neurological diversity in children has risen ASD, ADHD etc in society, the conversion is often about MMR Ipads or diet, discipline etc which of course all important variables but i feel its unhelpful that a lot of would be mothers are not informed of the risk past 35, of downs syndrome, autism etc, its obviously much better financially to be older and have a family. aibu to feel its the elephant inthe room regarding rising levels of children with ASD, ADHD, Etc??

I believe there is some evidence that SSRI use in pregnancy increases the risk of autism. Depression antenatally is also a potential risk factor though and it is hard to control for it in studies.
I personally think this theory could explain the increase in autism. Women also drink more compared to the recent past and recreational drug use has increased. I think these are probably risk factors too.

I'm 42, I can remember a girl in my junior school who had huge meltdowns, nearly always in the lunch hall. Tipping over chairs, lashing out at the mid day staff. It was a big junior school, 4 form entry.

At secondary there was a girl my class who threw a stool at the teacher.

Going further back FIL was born in the 50s he was prone to bolting off as a child, so they'd tether him at picnics using a rope and tent pegs(!).

I would love to know what the results would be if for every child who is diagnosed with ADHD, autism, Dyslexia etc their parents are also tested.

I am no expert but I am sure that the results would show a strong genetic link

I am not diagnosed with anything but having sat in while my dc were tested for dyslexia and tried in my mind to do what was asked and failed completely I am sure I would get diagnosed with dyslexia.

Ds has ADHD. Lots of people would tell me that I needed to test him for ADHD. I just thought Ds was energetic. His behaviour mirrored my own at that age.

@Oliversmumsarmy - Just out of interest, do you feel like a diagnosis of ADHD as a child would have changed anything or
Improved your life?

I think it’s definitely aliens. Definitely.

On the school front, right up until the 70s there were children that the state could declare 'uneducatable' and they had no right to an education at all. It wasnt until the 80s that a right to mainstream education was introduced and there was a huge surge of closing special schools in the early 2000s under a government drive for inclusion. So yes you are much more likely to see a child with needs on a mainstream classroom now.

I think these are probably risk factors too.

And your qualifications in the area of causes of autism are what exactly Cluckyandconfused?

I have spent years working with families of children with autism. So many of these parents have been affected by the baseless opinions of other people.

Please could people think for a moment before pedalling their beliefs rather than discussing research and facts.

Where's your evidence for this? You can't just take random stats and make them into a scientific theory!

Why not blame rising levels of single mothers? Or global warming?

Hoik

Because they either didn't attend (persistent truancy), were homeschooled, went into exclusion all day every day (e.g., isolation) or went to a special school whereas now there are more autistic children in mainstream schools.

But where are all these autistic grown ups who attended all the special schools back in the day? There must have been thousands of these schools to account for the difference in numbers attending mainstream these days. Surely many of the people on here posting about their autistic parents/grandparents would know if they had attended special schools or been homeschooled...but nobody has mentioned that.
Homeschooling was unheard of where I grew up. Mums had to work. Nobody was at home to be homeschooling. Children chucking tables wouldn't have been diagnosed with autism back then and sent to a special school unless they also had severe physical and/or learning difficulties...which the kids I mentioned above do not. They have problems with emotional regulation but are capable of mainstream learning. I know of one child in the 80s who had severe autism with agressive outbursts and he was sent to a residential home over 2 hours away as the parents couldn't cope and there was no provision nearby. He had the mental age of a toddler. Where were the rest of them sent?

Not to mention people trying to decide when is the optimum time to start their families.

They need facts not scaremongering.

There's a lot of theories being thrown around on here.
I had my first baby at 21. Only had 2 scans. Ate healthily, never smoked, didn't drink, no medication taken. He's autistic.
There is autism in the family. The only link that's ever been made is that it's genetic and I agree with this.

There are lots of theories. None are facts. Autistic children are born to young and old, Healthy unhealthy, high IQ low IQ, antidepressants in pregnancy to mother earthly who ate fruit and veg taking every precaution during pregnancy.
There is no one type of DM to blame.
I don't blame vaccines I know Autistic DC which were never vaccinated.
My DD age 11 is on the higher end of the spectrum. My DS 4 has a emotional dysfunction disorder DMDD.. apparently I still think ASD.
My DM had me at 25 she had pnd never recovered at nearly 70 still suffering depression. My uncle on Dads side in the 70's was locked up in lomans, my Nannys sister was in an asylum in the 40's. All of those could now be seen as neuro issues and had treatment. It is not new.

I do wonder if the studies on "depressed mothers" assess them for autism first? Because maybe they are depressed and struggling with undiagnosed ASD

Studies are showing that the rise in multiples and prem survival babies are more to do with asd and pathological differences etc

IME it seems more prevalent in the first child born.

But where are all these autistic grown ups who attended all the special schools back in the day? There must have been thousands of these schools to account for the difference in numbers attending mainstream these day
Not at all. Only the extreme were diagnosed. The others were the bold kids in the class constantly singled it the ones who grew up depressed lacking social confidence and skills.
You know many of those homeless adults in the street, or adults you know who can't grip reality, pay bills organise their home feel depressed and anxious often they're the ASD DC of the past.
The boy in my class use to throw chairs he never learnt to read or write well, I mentioned him before he is homeless now I often see him begging to feed his habit to forget his life.

@ConwyGhost as stated by a PP, children could be declared "uneducatable" and permanently excluded from school.

There was also the fact that school used to be set up in a way that actually helped high functioning children (as an FYI, high functioning is fairly meaningless in terms of autism 'severity' and only refers to IQ rather than actual ability to function). Desks in rows facing the front and the teacher more likely to pit their fidgety kids in the front rows where there are fewer distractions, emphasis on individual work rather than group projects, lots of structure and routine, learning by rote, etc. So many children who were "high functioning" simply followed the herd, flew under the radar, and kicked off at home instead after a long day of holding it in at school.

Children who couldn't cope but were not severe enough to fit into the limited diagnostic criteria of the time were, as per my previous post, truants or were excluded or home schooled (not every parent worked and I knew several home school kids in the 80s) or went to what we called the 'naughty boys/girls school' for kids who had behavioural problems.

The most severely affected children, who did fit the narrow diagnostic criteria or who instead fit the criteria for other conditions as their difficulties weren't recognised as autism, went to specialist schools or were put into residential programmes at a young age. Indeed when autism was first recognised in the 1940s parents were advised to put their child into an institution and move on with their lives.

Invisibility doesn't mean something doesn't exist.

Thank goodness I read this. A team of specialists haven’t been able to tell me why my twins have ASD, why one of them has other disabilities, even sequencing DT2’s whole genome so far has not found anything....

This must be it. My shrivelled 33 year old ovaries.

Fantastic news.

I was fairly young when I had dc2 who is potentially asd, I also suspect traits in my other 2. I have always wondered if my use of anti depressants had any bearing. But tbf who really knows it would be very hard to formulate a link and I refuse to blame myself

How do explain the rising number of adults with late diagnosis of such conditions? Seems to me it is more to do with improved*

This^^ I'm seeing people in their 50s, 60s and 70s being diagnosed. Finally putting together something that's affected them their whole lives. How would you explain that OP? It's a bit like a 1+1 to me.

I have children with ASD and I wonder whether it’s more widely recognised now or whether there are environmental factors that make it more common. Traffic pollution occurred to me as a possible environmental factor, and also rates of smoking in the 20th century as a potential source of mutations.

In my family there are two people in my generation (a cousin on my side and a cousin of my husband) who appear to have autistic traits but haven’t felt the need to seek diagnosis. And maybe they wouldn’t quite meet the criteria, but the combination of those traits from my side and my husband’s side seems to add up to ASD in our children. However, going back three generations I’m not aware of any autistic traits - no eccentric uncles or ‘black sheep’ etc, even in my husband’s very large extended family. So it feels like it has come almost out of nowhere. It’s very puzzling.

Had my daughter with downs in my 20’s and my last Daughter no issues as all In my 40,s your statement doesn’t add up!

YABU
Knowledge is power. My fil is seemingly on the spectrum. He’s in his 80’s. He was always discussed in whispers as the family oddity. In the past he might have been the village hermit or something. I think he and my mil worked as a team because she literally never stopped talking unless asleep (not even when eating) and he hardly says a word. My dh, who is early 50’s, gets more like his father as he ages and I’d say he is perhaps mildly autistic, but I’m not sure.

The population is full of people, who’d possibly be diagnosed these days but weren’t because so little was known decades ago. My cousin’s husband would be another potential person on the spectrum.

I believe there is some evidence that SSRI use in pregnancy increases the risk of autism

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170719185638.htm
There seems to been a small study showing it's a possible risk factor.

There seem to be research backing genetic links, older fathers, pollution factors and possibly some prescription drugs – all possibly adding to risk and then also possible increased diagnosis and less tolerant environments possibly driving more diagnosis. It's clearly a complex not fully understood yet situation.

Only the extreme were diagnosed

I think this was true.

I'm in my 40s went to a rural primary school mixed years and there was violet boy - came and went then came back later then ended up in a special school finally diagnosed as autistic – he'd left before secondary.

Another boy who later in life was diagnosed with Aspergers who did struggle though same secondary was never violet at school – was very quiet and withdrawn. Clearly missed as a child very probably because they behaved in school and could be ignored.