to think rising levels of neuro diverse children in society is partly due to rising ages of pregnant mothers?

[staydazzling]

im not condeming anything here btw, i would like to make that clear. and i know this may not go down well on here, donning hard hat but whenever theres discussions about how neurological diversity in children has risen ASD, ADHD etc in society, the conversion is often about MMR Ipads or diet, discipline etc which of course all important variables but i feel its unhelpful that a lot of would be mothers are not informed of the risk past 35, of downs syndrome, autism etc, its obviously much better financially to be older and have a family. aibu to feel its the elephant inthe room regarding rising levels of children with ASD, ADHD, Etc??

Interesting. Maybe. Brave topic to raise. I’m autistic and am not offended by it, for what it’s worth. If we can’t talk about the science behind autism including prevalence and risk factors, we continue to be poorly understood.

Basically, it has always been a ‘thing’ - just no one ever labelled it. Everyone who has ever lived in a small community knows of one or two single men who were obsessed with traction engines or inventions or who were socially awkward. It’s just a way of being, like any other. Unfortunately we now live in a world which favours extroversion and loud ‘dynamic’ people. Look what we did to people like Alan Turing.

Unless you have actual evidence you're talking rubbish. My asd son was born when i was 32 - hardly an unusually old age two relatives of mine - unrelated to each other- were born when their mothers were early twenties (40 odd years apart) and both have asd.

It's diagnosis that's the key. For the first 60 odd years and 20 odd years respectively, both relatives were just known as 'a bit unusual' - we've never kept stats on the number of 'bit unusuals' either nationally or internationally! Now thousands/ millions have a name for their condition and we can keep stats. Mystery solved.

I have 4 DC all with the same father (thinking about the genetic link). The eldest has ASD. The younger 3 are NT. Age gap between eldest and youngest is 11 years.

So in our case it's not age. However, now being educated about ASD I can see that my DH is most probably has it too (less severe). He agrees but is refusing to get an official diagnosis. So I do strongly believe it is genetic.

Reflecting on some of my FIL's behaviour I can see the genetic link too.

Sleepyblueocean

there are many autistic children with violent tendencies in schools these days

I think you mean children whose needs are not being met and so can't cope.

But it's a symptom of their autism, whether to do with coping or not. The majority of kids in DH's class (100% autistic and in a special school for autistic children) lash out for umpteen reasons during the day and they have more support there than in a mainstream school or at home. DH often comes home with cuts, bites and bruises. The kids he works with are aged 4 and 5. They kick, throw stuff etc...How are their needs not being met in a specialist autism unit?

I think we have to discuss rising autism rates sensibly and without hysteria. I agree something is happening and it’s not just down to better detection.

I suspect that genetics means that more neurodiverse people are less able to cope with various environmental and maternal factors thrown at them

I don’t think it’s age based on the kids I know!

Thank you, I will, @AtomicRabbit.
I also like Chris Bonnello/Autistic Not Weird and his advice to himself at different ages through his life before formal diagnosis is wonderful.

“Autism for example has a strong genetic component.
ADHD doesn't.”

@Devereux1 that’s simply not true. ADHD has a proven strong genetic component. I don’t know which senior mental health professionals you know but I wonder just how experienced and specialised they are in ADHD. There is still a huge lack of knowledge about it.

Many who are specialists in the field believe there is a strong genetic link and also that there is a lot of co-morbidity between ADHD, ASD and other neurodiverse conditions.

ConwyGhost my son goes to an asd specialist school. The children there do not constantly lash out, bite etc because their needs are being met.

Given that when I was at school dyspraxia was known as clumsy child syndrome and that a very large number of SENCOs still seem to think it is little more than that even now I think that an ability to diagnose/identify neurodiversity has a huge bearing on the increase. I realise, now that DC1 has been diagnosed, that I am dyspraxic too but it was never something that crossed anyone's mind at school. Same applies to the number of "naughty" boys in primary school - my guess is that some of them were ADHD etc

How are their needs not being met in a specialist autism unit?

Of course it's possible for a specialist provision to be unable to meet the needs of pupil/s.
Maybe it's sensory/environment related. Maybe the mix of pupils isn't working. It can also be a teaching method/approach not being right.

Just being specifically for pupils with ASD does not make it suitable for all.

But where are all these autistic grown ups who attended all the special schools back in the day? There must have been thousands of these schools to account for the difference in numbers attending mainstream these days. Surely many of the people on here posting about their autistic parents/grandparents would know if they had attended special schools or been homeschooled...but nobody has mentioned that.
The life expectancy for an person with learning difficulties and autism is 40, so the majority are probably dead. The rest are still in institutions, out of sight.

Autistic children displaying aggressive and antisocial behaviour in an autism unit are doing so for exactly the same reasons you would. They’re needs are not being met and they are desperate.

ConwyGhost - i appreciate you feel really knowlegeable about this because of your husbands work but a child with autism can find easily find a special school doesnt meet their needs all the time. My son goes to a special school for autism.One of the things he find hard is other childrens unpredictable responses in social communication, another is noise, another is children having meltdowns, another is not understanding what he is being taught, - none of this dissappears by it being a special school. It just means a special school should understand whats happening and support them through it and minimise 'triggers' and has more staff on hand with appropriate training. He is massively more able to access special school than mainstream school but he doesnt magically become neutrotypical.

Sleepyblueocean

ConwyGhost my son goes to an asd specialist school. The children there do not constantly lash out, bite etc because their needs are being met.

Well perhaps the types of autism in each school are different? My friend's brother is a severely autistic adult. His violent outbursts happen randomly and in response to things like the noise of a crisp packet...or someone sneezing..or telling him no he can't eat chocolate. How are his family expected to "meet his needs" and avoid his outbursts? It's part of his autism. He's nearly 50 and has the mental age of a toddler.

Autsim and ADHD go back four generations in my family - it only became really known when my DC were diagnosed and or family history was taken into account - as both involve a strong genetic component
Neither my DGM (AS), nor my DF (AS) or my DM (ADHD) or my DB and I ever got the help they / we would have needed - only my DC.

OK, autsim /ADHD was unknown as a diagnosis in their days but not the symptoms as such. And of course my DF / DM and DGM were busy with simply surviving.
Results: self medication with alcohol and cigarettes, depression, very low self esteem, working way below their abilities, anxiety, social isolation etc.
Both my DC have learned to live "with their brains" and are therefore much less stressed and working to their abilities, than the generations before them.

His violent outbursts happen randomly

No they don’t, you go on to list what causes the behaviour.

Sorry but YABU to think that your 'thoughts' on a matter like this carry any weight at all when there are, you know, fully qualified researchers who devote their lives to studying such things.

Without links to actual research this is just vapid postulating.

I’ve found this an interesting thread.

I’m certain a link/cause will almost certainly be found given advances in science and technology but I also think that the spectrum may be divided into more specific diagnoses. I’m not completely convinced Aspergers should have been removed because it seemed to convey a very particular level of autism that was almost a condition in its own right.

I think the question surrounding the age of the parents is interesting and I wonder if there’s ever been any research into what age the parents where when they started puberty/menstruation. We all know the quality of a woman’s eggs declines with age in addition to the fact she only had a finite number of eggs at birth and I wonder if puberty starting on average earlier over the years contributes to a risk factor?

I suspect the young age - 4/5 yo- of the children with ASD that @ConwyGhost ‘a husband teaches is a factor in them lashing out a lot. Perhaps they will do so less as they get older and continue to get the right provisions.

Many special schools are over capacity and do not receive adequate funding so you could easily have 12 pupils in a class with maybe 3 or 4 staff. This sort of set up will mean that some of those children will not cope with the number of other children and/or level of support.

zeds

His violent outbursts happen randomly

No they don’t, you go on to list what causes the behaviour.

No I gave examples of random things that spark an episode. He doesn't always react to the same things therefore avoiding crisp packets and sneezing isn't a solution because tomortow it will be something else.