To think teachers are quite well paid?

[Newyearnewnameforme]

Not intended goadily but my salary is more than most of my graduate friends.

Obviously, it isn’t Rockefeller standards but AIBU to think it’s actually OK?

not sure this is worth 31 pages.

in a nutshell:

1. the starting pay is really quite good.
2. longevity/the ability to stick around at the top of the payscales as & when you get there is really quite bad.

Jimmy, they are only forced if made redundant. Then if over 55 (I think) they get their pension early along with a very good redundancy scheme. If they are choosing to leave, and take their pension early, I'm guessing that's because they wanted to? They are still very lucky to be on such a good pension scheme and redundancy scheme.

As usual with these threads, the OP has wandered off and stopped refereeing the thread rattus so we are now just chewing the fat.

Out of interest, who REALLY enters a profession at aged 21 because of its pension?

TabbyMumz
they are only forced if made redundant.

this isn't true. In many jobs you can be forced out.

As for the redundancy bit, a school would be foolish to do this as they wouldn't be allowed to fill the job for at least 6 months.

There are other ways to force an older member of staff to take retirement. And the teaching profession has this down to a fine art.

If they are choosing to leave

Sometimes there's not much choice. Even the most resilient teacher can only take so much. If they want you out, then they can make your life unbearable until this happens.

I teach in an international private school. I am indeed polite & professional. I can also spot That Parent from 3 corridors away .

I earn north of OP's salary, tax free, plus the rent on a very nice house, free places for 3dc & sundry other lovely perks.

That package is one reason why I left the UK, in fact, where I was on about 38k. With no prospect of further advancement, in my expensive UPS3 40s - unless my HOD had abruptly spontaneously combusted, & simultaneously some sort of NQT-specific Black Death had levelled every shiny young thing in a 50 mile radius.

You couldn't pay me enough to return to the UK, however; you could match my current package & I'd still give you a hollow chuckle & walk away. It's the working conditions wot wears you down in the end, not whether or not it's a decent salary...

"Thanks Tabby didn't say it wasn't good?"

I didnt say you did?

"And I look forward to the influx of new (envious) teacher applicants."

Well if its true that 45% of teachers leave the profession every year, then that will be filled with new prospective applicants very quickly. Universities have had thousands of applicants already I'm sure.

Some schools in Birmingham can offer golden hellos because the funding in Birmingham is better than the schools in some of the surrounding counties. They aren't massively funded (no school is) but they do have money to commit to extra for teachers of subjects like Physics, it's easier to nail jelly to a wall than it is recruit a good Physics teacher.

Some schools in Birmingham can offer golden hellos because the funding in Birmingham is better than the schools in some of the surrounding counties. They aren't massively funded (no school is) but they do have money to commit to extra for teachers of subjects like Physics, it's easier to nail jelly to a wall than it is recruit a good Physics teacher.

TabbyMumz

Well if its true that 45% of teachers leave the profession every year, then that will be filled with new prospective applicants very quickly. Universities have had thousands of applicants already I'm sure

Except that the DFE has not met its recruitment numbers for many years I'm sure that @noblegiraffe can fill in the figures.

And on last number there were over 350,000 qualified teachers that aren't teaching and refusing to come back to the classroom.

Somebody somewhere should really be asking why.

Well if its true that 45% of teachers leave the profession every year, then that will be filled with new prospective applicants very quickly.

I wish.

And pension contribution rises have occurred across many public sector roles (and quite rightly), to make up in some way for the huge lengthy pay freeze we have all had to endure.

There are other ways to force an older member of staff to take retirement. And the teaching profession has this down to a fine art. yes, that happened to me. Although I did reach 60 before I left I could have gone on longer if it hadn't been made unbearable by a new HT and becoming an Academy.

"this isn't true. In many jobs you can be forced out."
How? The only other way I can think of is through capability or dismissed for misconduct or excessive absence?

TabbyMumz

By increasing the stress on the person until they break or leave.

On these threads I always find myself wondering why non-teachers are so invested in putting us in our place.
Recently started reading ‘Bullshit Jobs’ by David Graeber and it’s started me thinking - so many people work in jobs that have no value. That is they contribute nothing to society. People in these jobs know this (though they may not want to admit it). Some people in these jobs feel very bitter (rightly so - it’s a miserable existence) particularly towards people who do jobs that are unarguably beneficial to society. I do wonder what jobs the usual suspects do.

"Well if its true that 45% of teachers leave the profession every year, then that will be filled with new prospective applicants very quickly."

"I wish."

Are you saying you dont believe people are applying for teacher courses? Or that you cant recruit?

By increasing the stress on the person until they break or leave.

and pushing them into capability procedures when it's unwarranted, work place bullying at it's worst. I haven't experienced it myself but I've seen it happen.

CuckooCuckooClock

I generally put it down to not having a good experience at school, not making much of themselves, or just having a chip on there shoulder for whatever reason including a teacher not bending there knee to them.

There are of course some people that have a genuine reason but moat are just down to their own poor choices, including how they choose to act at school.

there really should be an edit function on this site.

On these threads I always find myself wondering why non-teachers are so invested in putting us in our place.

Everyone's been to school. They think that's all the experience they need.

Captain I’m really sorry that happened to you. I’ve seen it so often and fully expect it to happen to me at some point. It’s shit. And it seems that people outside our profession don’t even believe it happens...

Are you saying you dont believe people are applying for teacher courses? Or that you cant recruit?

Both

To me £47K is a massive salary. Where I live most professional jobs pay between £20-£30K, anything above £30K is considered a big salary...except for industries like IT, law, medicine.
I've got a degree and Masters, 8 years experience and I'm on £25K in the private sector which is not great, but it's my own fault for choosing a humanities subject and an oversubscribed industry I suppose. Between me and DH (who is on a similar salary) we do Ok - own flat, holidays abroad, savings etc. But that will change when baby comes and we move to a family house.
Anyway I digress. The point is private sector graduate job doesn't automatically mean bigger salary. All of our friends who are teachers seem to be better off than us, although I'm not denying their jobs are hard and personally I wouldn't be able to do what they do.

And given that over 45% of newly qualified teachers quit before 5 years are up, not many benefit from the pension scheme!

I suspect that this might be a misleading statistic - what percentage of newly qualified teachers move into the private sector after 5 years/have a baby/work overseas for a few years - and then come back into the state sector?

Yesterday I was reading a newspaper report stating that nearly 11,000 EU academics had quit the UK since the referendum. However the number of EU academics working at UK universities had actually increased from 35,920 to 37,255 - the 11,000 academics hadn't all quit the UK - most of them had just moved jobs within the UK (lots of fixed term contracts at universities).