To feel disappointed about the attitude towards age gap relationships on MN

[Daxilove]

Noticed a thread on here earlier about a woman whose DH left her for a much younger woman. Not condoning that particular scenario at all but I noticed so many of the comments were about the fact that there’s no way the relationship would last due to the age gap, they can’t have anything in common, OW must be a gold digger to be interested in an older man and so on.

I’m young (26) and don’t find myself attracted to men my own age at all. I usually choose to date men between 40-50 and am currently in a relationship with a 47 year old. We have lots in common, plenty to talk about and genuine mutual attraction. Yes DP is a high earner, but I am too and I’m certainly not after his money, I have my own! We love to spend our money on luxurious holidays, eating out at special places, shopping for nice things etc. As a feminist, it makes me disappointed to think that people must see us out and about together and assume that I’m some sort of gold digger or he’s a “sugar daddy”. Is this really still what people automatically think of age gap relationships in this day and age?!

'Why do you go after men for their (older) age?

Surely you must have something in common with someone who is from the same generation as you?'

Why does that even matter? So long as no one in a relationship is underage; and so long as it's a genuine relationship (not the man or occasionally the woman treating a younger partner as a 'trophy') surely age should not matter?

50 years ago, many people thought it was wrong for people of different races or ethnicities to have a relationship. We now mostly condemn that as a damaging form of prejudice. Why is it all right to take the attitude that it's wrong for people of different ages to have a relationship?

I think we assume our personal choices are made completely independently, but that's not the case. We are the products of a society that has encouraged people not to 'settle down' too early, plus the lizard part of our brain that wants to pass on DNA is making calculations all the time, assessing the best bet. This primative force doesn't know about contraception, social security benefits or childcare for working women.

It assumes a young woman having sex will have a baby and will need help and resources to bring up the child.

There are vast numbers of men in the 25-35 age bracket who don't want to settle down and actively avoid relationships. The more well resourced they are the more this is true. The dating apps are full of them. There are not nearly so many women in that age group who don't want a relationship, many are wanting children.

Your primitive brain does the calculation. It sees that you will have to compete with large numbers of women for the best men your own age. But to an older man you are very desirable. He has resources and security. He will be an easier catch than a man your own age for settling down. So your brain tells you to fall for him.

All subconscious.

I haven't ignored it, there just isn't any reason why gamete health would be the only biological constituent of attractiveness. For starters, male gamete health peaks at an age at which historically most men would have been least well equipped to provide for their offspring and the mother of their offspring (maximum volatility, minimum accumulation of resources). There are many such contradictions. Re why it would not also be mirrored in women, that could be said of all sorts of things for which the priorities in the sexes seem to be consistently and cross-culturally uneven when there is no obvious rational reason for this to be so.

I didn't suggest that most women were consistently aiming to date men multiple decades older than themselves. Only that it isn't unusual for young women to be attracted to much older men, hence the many tropes and cracks about daddy issues etc.

There's a relevant excerpt from the linked book here, I didn't realise that previous link was a dead end.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NJq7BgAAQBAJ&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=madeleine+fugere+older+men+attracted&source=bl&ots=ZkRlM5siYk&sig=ACfU3U1sVbtW28td12wqY3rLjxFyMMmZZw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjU9yYxeLmAhVuQkEAHYyy_CiEQ6AEwDnoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=madeleine%20fugere%20older%20men%20attracted&f=false

Missillusioned, I suspect that's a significant lizard brain/subconscious part of it for many, speaking as one of them! It all feels too "animal" to isolate, for the most part, but I think sounds entirely plausible as at least a factor.

And regarding the evidence that there is a potential biological basis, Google has thrown up some results that appear relevant

There are many theories of attraction- I did a whole module on it for my psych degree.

The facts are: the largest proportion of marriages are between people who are similar in age with an age difference of 1-3 years. Of course larger age gap relationships exist but they exist in far, far smaller percentages.
Those are the actual statistics and the results have been replicated around the globe.

So you can post as many theories as you like but from what's actually occurring in real life- people are choosing long term partners that are of a very similar age to them. I'm not sure why this bothers you so much. If you prefer older men - go for it.

I haven't ignored it, there just isn't any reason why gamete health would be the only biological constituent of attractiveness.

Well, you said there is 'evidence' that older men are more attractive for 'biological' reasons. In that case, surely the fact that the older a man is, the less likely he is to be able to contribute to a viable pregnancy is highly significant? Especially as you have provided zero evidence of any biological advantages which older men have to counteract this.

For starters, male gamete health peaks at an age at which historically most men would have been least well equipped to provide for their offspring and the mother of their offspring (maximum volatility, minimum accumulation of resources)

But that's not 'biological'. That's sociological. For the vast majority of human history, we were hunter gatherers with no 'resouces' to accumulate, and anything there was was shared within the group. So no reason at all for a woman to seek out a decades older man, but plenty of reasons to seek out a virile young man with healthy sperm.

Only that it isn't unusual for young women to be attracted to much older men, hence the many tropes and cracks about daddy issues etc

I would say it is pretty unusual, and the actual statistical evidence - which again you ignore - bears this out. Again, if middle aged dudes were so 'biologically' desirable, surely they'd be in greater demand?

There's a relevant excerpt from the linked book here, I didn't realise that previous link was a dead end

I'm not going to read the whole thing, but assuming you have, can you point to the part where it provides evidence that older men are biologically superior to young men?

Do people have a problem with age gaps for both sexes.

Do people pity the woman if she has a younger husband? Feel she is a bit of a sleaze?

I really can't see the issue and never have. Just because you have an age gap does not mean you have nothing in common, the same Interests or a genuine deep connection.

There is most definitely no power inbalance in my relationship, I have no daddy issues and most definitely know my own worth and have no insecurities.

I think as long as they are both in the relationship through choice and they are happy, people shouldn't judge.

Do people have a problem with age gaps for both sexes.

With generational age gaps where the older partner consistently seeks out much younger men/women? Yes I do.

However, the fact is that such relationships pretty much always involve a much older man, not the reverse. Look at this thread. Countless posters saying their husband is much older than them - one where they met when she was a teen and he was 40 - and almost none the other way round. And we all know why that is.

I've linked you to the relevant page. You're entirely at liberty to read it yourself.

Re biological vs sociological, you can't entirely separate the two in this context. And the volatility I referenced is v clearly of relevance biologically in any case. Impregnation is not the only relevant juncture.

I didn't say that older men were more attractive, biologically or otherwise, but that there was reasonable evidence of some biological basis for that preference where it exists.

Also, the fact that it does exist - and not uncommonly - is self-evident, and the bafflement and invoking of gamete fitness does not undermine that. I never suggested that me and my own specific preferences were somehow representative.

Do people pity the woman if she has a younger husband? Feel she is a bit of a sleaze?)

It depends. As I have said, meeting someone clicking and them being a different age and deciding to go for it, I u understand.

People who consistently date significantly older or younger I dont understand. It goes for both sexes.

If a woman consistently, purposely seeks out much younger men, then yes, I feel exactly the same way about her that I would a man doing the same.

I've linked you to the relevant page. You're entirely at liberty to read it yourself.

Had a look at it. No evidence of older males' biological superiority. None at all.

Re biological vs sociological, you can't entirely separate the two in this context.

Why not? It was who said that older men have specifically biological advantages, but you've been unable to provide evidence for a single one.

And the volatility I referenced is v clearly of relevance biologically in any case. Impregnation is not the only relevant juncture.

Eh?

Younger men are more likely to produce viable sperm which in turn leads to healthy offspring. That is a fact. How does 'volatility' counteract this?

there was reasonable evidence of some biological basis for that preference where it exists.

None of which you have provided.

Also, the fact that it does exist - and not uncommonly - is self-evident, and the bafflement and invoking of gamete fitness does not undermine that

Once again: YOU mentioned biology as a basis for young women being attracted to older men, and claimed you have evidence to back that up. If you'd said there are sociogical or psychological arguments as to why a small number of young women fancy much older men, I wouldn't have disagreed, but you specifically mentioned biology. In that context, of course the fact that older men have less viable sperm is relevant. What could be more relevant in a discussion about the biological basis for attraction?

Also, the fact that it does exist - and not uncommonly

According to the statistics though it IS relatively uncommon. The larger the age gap becomes, the smaller the % of marriages. BTW- I'm not doubting that many women find older men attractive. There have been times when I have found specific older men incredibly attractive. But in terms of choosing a life partner, it is not common.

Do people pity the woman if she has a younger husband? Feel she is a bit of a sleaze?

Depends on the age gap. Madonna is 61 and isn't her boyfriend like, 25 or something? I have two sons - both kids now but I will admit that if one of them at age 20 rocked up with a 60 year old I would be shocked to my core and I would NOT be happy at all.

Countless posters saying their husband is much older than them - one where they met when she was a teen and he was 40 - and almost none the other way round. And we all know why that is.

To be honest I am quite surprised. Usually on these threads theres at least 5 posters that tip up claiming to have a male OH thata significantly younger.

Theres also quite a few posters, that say they were with someone much younger, then dumped for a younger woman when the man decided he wanted kids or the woman went through menopause.

In all honesty, I am yet to meet a man that consistently seeks out older women who doesnt have issues and is actually looking for someone to look after them. I assume there is men that do this and arent looking for a mother figure. I am yet to meet one.

I do know several relationships where the women are older. In all cases the women are quite domineering and like to be in control. But they are definitely, mother figures. Organise everything, take the wages off their OH and give them back an allowance etc.

Absolutely I wouldn't try to say it happened more the other way around, as men are attracted to younger and women look for older normally, so it would fit that it would be that way.

I was reading a paper published by a zoologist stating it would be natural instinct that a woman would be attracted to an older Mate, as it shows they have genetic strength (my phone wont copy the link, his name was Stephen prolux ) that is the very fact that an older male can still display his munificence that really makes a female's head turn. A younger male may do so, but a potential mate does not know how long he is capable of maintaining that, It could be all over too quickly.

So any stag that can still display a fine set of antlers in the twilight of its years, or an old peacock that can still rustle up a first-rate plumage has to be considered a major catch. Only a creature with really powerful genes can do that and therefore attract females who are, in general, the ones who choose partners while males wait to be selected.

women look for older normally

They don't though. Women prefer men about their own age. This has been shown time and time again.

it would be natural instinct that a woman would be attracted to an older Mate

Sounds like male wishful thinking to me. Women seem to have no problems putting aside their supposed 'natural instincts' going by marriage stats and preferences expressed by women on dating sites. Those 'instincts' can't be that powerful.

but in terms of choosing a life partner, it's not common

That's exactly what I said.

Great way for older men to get a Carer in place early.

I don't actually know of any younger woman/older man relationships that have lasted unless the man has money + no other/previous familial responsibilities outside the relationship that impact on both his time and money.

DP is 8 years older than me, so not a huge gap. I'm 56 - can't imagine being with a 76 year old at this stage in my life. I think age gap relationships are fine when the man is still in his 40s/50s but I don't buy that it's all the same when you fast forward 20 years ahead and he's slowed down and elderly, often with health problems too.

So do age gap if you want OP that's fine, just don't speak loftily as if it's somehow better or maturer than other relationships. Your scenario is common enough as men know that often, youth can be bought. I see you've mentioned luxurious holidays. I love travel, we do all that too.

I've yet to see a broke elder with a woman young enough to be his daughter.

Haha male wishful thinking. Yeah you may be right he is talking about what happens in nature.

To me attraction is attraction, regardless of age. I dont think it needs defending or explaining. We have lots of different age configurations in our friendship group, so I tend not judge as I know the stereotypical view isnt always the reality.

Yeah you may be right he is talking about what happens in nature.

Is he though?

Given that most mammals have pretty short life spans compared to humans, I'd be surprised if there is any major age discrepancy between males and females when mating. Sounds like cod science to me, and I'm willing to bet the author is a middle aged male.

I don't think women 'normally' go for older dudes, or it wouldn't be seen as kinda weird.

I mean, if you're into older guys, go nuts! But let's not pretend its biologically ingrained in women to chase older dudes, that's just not true. Women aren't hitting up older men most of the time, usually it's the other way around.

Traditionally the only reason for younger women finding older men attractive was that power (of various types including but not limited to financial, political, and power to tell "subordinates" what to do due to professional status) is an aphrodisiac.

Obviously where this is the case the potential for a huge imbalance of power in the relationship is considerable.

I think age gap relationships are fine when the man is still in his 40s/50s but I don't buy that it's all the same when you fast forward 20 years ahead and he's slowed down and elderly, often with health problems too

Agree- I said this earlier- when she is 30 and he is 50 its not really a big deal. When she is 50 and he is 70 its a different thing altogether. I couldn't imagine being 50 with a 70 year old partner.

Yea he is a zoologist, and gives reasons on his explanations, that could make sense.

But if you dont buy into it, that's ok, it wasnt there to change your opinion just to give another view from another perspective.

I dont think it really matters what others think, people just need to be comfortable in their decisions and choices and not allow the judgments of strangers bother them.

Love comes in all shapes and sizes if it were one fits all, the world would be very boring.

Yea he is a zoologist, and gives reasons on his explanations, that could make sense.

The one you've provided makes absolutely no sense however - old stags with 'fine' antlers being a 'catch'? And how does he explain that when given the choice, the vast majority of women choose men their own age? His theory certainly isn't supported by the evidence.