To feel disappointed about the attitude towards age gap relationships on MN

[Daxilove]

Noticed a thread on here earlier about a woman whose DH left her for a much younger woman. Not condoning that particular scenario at all but I noticed so many of the comments were about the fact that there’s no way the relationship would last due to the age gap, they can’t have anything in common, OW must be a gold digger to be interested in an older man and so on.

I’m young (26) and don’t find myself attracted to men my own age at all. I usually choose to date men between 40-50 and am currently in a relationship with a 47 year old. We have lots in common, plenty to talk about and genuine mutual attraction. Yes DP is a high earner, but I am too and I’m certainly not after his money, I have my own! We love to spend our money on luxurious holidays, eating out at special places, shopping for nice things etc. As a feminist, it makes me disappointed to think that people must see us out and about together and assume that I’m some sort of gold digger or he’s a “sugar daddy”. Is this really still what people automatically think of age gap relationships in this day and age?!

I found older men terribly sexy when I was a young lady, but now that I'm older, I understand how weird it is for a man in his 40s or 50s to want to 'spend time' with a woman in her 20s.

@IcedPurple

Definitely enraged. Bafflement has been something I've encountered too, and it is obviously markedly different. She was sufficiently pissed off at the time in question that someone else (admittedly unwisely) told her to calm down.

Re why, that's not an entirely straightforward question to answer. I've also always been very attracted to men from the Middle East. There isn't really an individual feature or set thereof in either case that is the reason for the attraction, at least not obviously so. I do have a thing for salt and pepper hair, and a certain timbre of voice that young men tend not to have, but that's a bit of a chicken and egg thing I suppose - do I like those men because I like those things, or vice versa? Difficult to be entirely sure. But I've always been the same, even at (and pre) puberty my crushes were all of a similar ilk. Is it something about them physically that is "causal", something about the chasm between them and me, something about the "narrative" aspect (IYSWIM), something else? God knows.

It's really not that unusual, though. I know many women who are similarly disposed (and indeed many who are not - my sister prefers younger men with what I'd consider to be very boyish features). Equally, while it's undoubtedly more unusual this way around, I have male friends who have a preference for older women.

The mechanisms are tricky to unpick altogether, but I'm not sure in this context it's of tremendous importance.

Dh 3 years younger than me is certainly not a porn addict and is a brilliant husband - came across plenty of old perves aged 15 - late twenties really didnt see the attraction myself then or now

And re weirdness, I don't think it's weird at all. I would be extremely dubious of any man of a certain age that seemed to exclusively or predominantly seek out much younger women for actual, involved, longer term relationships, absolutely, but the mechanism of the attraction in more general terms is pretty obvious. I don't dispute that there are many Younger Women who have fanciful ideas re their precocity and maturity but I would suspect that most are at least somewhat aware of the score.

The porn thing is an interesting point - of all the sexual partners I have had, it has without exception only been the ones my age or younger that "played to an invisible camera" or expressed interest very early on in acts that were either niche, violent or the province of more trusting/long term relationships.

Anecdotal, obviously, but there is a marked generational difference at play.

I think it also gets much harder as a man gets older not to look like a sleaze. When all your friends have settled, your social life begins to look odd. You stick out. Your partner will also struggle because the age gap is also with the partners of the social group. And of course if you are the second wife or partner post kids then you are going to feel different because you are. That’s where the jokes and remarks come because you don’t fit.

One of my contemporaries has an age gap relationship - we are polite but of course the conversation does seem odd as she is a decade younger than us. And he always had a taste for younger girls. She may not know that, but we do.

I've not read all the posts but this is a mean thread. Why be so bitter and judgemental about the relationships of others? All of the comments about older men looking sad and desperate....really? Just crack on with your own lives and stop making nasty comments about others

My dp is 15 years my senior and I forget the age gap these days. We are very happy. I didn't intentionally go for an older man but i love him as a person and it doesn't matter to me one bit. But even if I weren't in an age gap relationship I'd still find this horribly judgemental. Age is just one aspect of someone. Would you judge a couple where one person was significantly uglier than the other?

It's really not that unusual, though.

Obviously this is all anecdotal, but when I was your age I would have considered a man over 40 to be absolutely ancient. I certainly would not have found men in their 40s to be physically attractive as a group, and considered men my own age - in their physical prime - to be unattractive. And I don't know a single woman my age who would have. We may have found the occasional individual man of that age group - usually a celebrity rather than someone in real life - to be attractive, but nobody that I know would have found men in their 40s to be hotter than men her own age.

I would be extremely dubious of any man of a certain age that seemed to exclusively or predominantly seek out much younger women for actual, involved, longer term relationships, absolutely, but the mechanism of the attraction in more general terms is pretty obvious.

Oh, it's obvious what the men are getting out of it, sure. A fit young body and a naive (however much the woman might like to think otherwise) young brain. What the women are getting out of it isn't nearly so obvious, at least not to me.

Thinking about it anecdotally I don’t know any age gap relationships myself in our social circles and families everyone is pretty much similar aged within 5 years or so only really see big age gap relationships on Daily Mail side bar doesn’t seem normal to me at all

@MsTSwift

Statistically speaking, the majority of relationships do indeed have age gaps of under 5 years. Reading threads like this you might think that generational age gaps are common but they are really quite rare. Though considerably less rare when the woman is young and fresh and the man old and worldly than the reverse, for reasons which are obivous.

IcedPurple, well, my experience has (I suppose to state the obvious rather!) been different. I would be baffled if someone my age found a man in his early 40s ancient. I don't know if perhaps it's partly because I've worked primarily in jobs in which my colleagues have comprised a lot of men that age, so for me (and other women there of a comparable age) there wasn't the sense of gap because we were working with, arguing with, befriending, making nemeses of men that age (and younger and indeed older). I don't know. But objectively 40 is not very old, it's not even really middle-aged.

I am fairly relaxed about people being perplexed at some of my crushes on/former fling with men of, say, 55+, because obviously that isn't even close to being a universal preference and I am not daft enough to blind to the issues and the aesthetic... not absurdity, but you know what I'm getting at. But 40?! I mean, Ryan Gosling is about to turn 40!

My dh is 8 years older, he looks a lot younger and is still not that mature for his age. I am an old soul so it works well. The only difference that is becoming more apparent is that he gets tired more quickly than I do but that could be partly down to a lack of fitness levels.

In general I am not sure what 20 year old women would see in a man in his 40s or 50s and would be concerned about a power imbalance but each to their own. There are lots of people out there that make such age gaps work.

And re numbers - I know a fair number of age gap relationships, tis true, but the vast majority of people I know are with a partner within 6 or 7 years of their own age either way. I think particularly when it comes to settling down, people will tend to lean away from the more extreme chasms in age/experience/lifestyle etc, for obvious reasons.

My husband is 15 years older than me.

He makes me laugh every day, I fancy the pants off him, he’s clever, kind, emotionally intelligent and just all-round the best thing that ever happened to me.

As if I’d have walked away because of his birth date. What nonsense.

Most people do end up their spouse’s carer. Easier to do it while you’re still mobile yourself, rather than both of you fumbling around unable to help each other like my poor parents were.

I would be baffled if someone my age found a man in his early 40s ancient.

By 'ancient' I meant much much older, not actually geriatric. And a man in his early 40s is twice your age and could have children your age. You may not consider these men old, but you can be certain they consider you very young, and that is the reason they find you attractive.

But objectively 40 is not very old, it's not even really middle-aged.

There's no such thing as being 'objectively' old, but how is 40 not middle aged?

But 40?! I mean, Ryan Gosling is about to turn 40!

I doubt I would have found someone as searingly bland as Ryan Gosling attractive at any age, but he's hardly your average 40 year old, is he?

Objectively, I would agree 40 isn't "old". However, when I was say, 19-20 years old, it did seem "old" to me which is why I was a bit confused and grossed out when men in their mid 40s came on to me. Its all relative- my 10 year old thinks anyone over 30 is "old"

But its not just chronological age. Most men at age 40+ have baggage- eg ex wives and they often have kids. Purely because the older you get, the more likely you are to have kids or have been married before.
This is partly why I turned down men in their 40s and 50s when I was in my 20s. There was NO WAY I would have been ready to be someone's step mum at age 19/20/21. I wasnt even ready for kids of my own, let alone be step mother to someone else's kids and all the stress that comes along with that. So its not just age- its about life experiences/ life stages and those are vastly different at age 20 than they are at age 40+.

If you meet and fall in love with someone of a different age- more power to you! But I will never change my mind that there is something really messed up about men who will ONLY go out with women 20+ years younger than them.

Also- i'd like to point out that this thread has been mean and judgemental on BOTH sides. Older women have been called "bitter" and "jealous" of younger women in age gaps relationships, younger men have all been labelled as immature porn addicts who have to take viagra, and people have been called bitter alcoholics when expressing perfectly reasonable concerns about large age gap relationships.

As I understand it middle age is usually defined from the mid 40s to the mid 60s so no, I wouldn't consider a 40-year-old to be middle aged.

Re the mechanism for said older men finding one attractive as a young woman, yes, I'd have thought that was obvious. But that wouldn't stop me viscerally finding them attractive, for whatever reason that may be the case. Most of my relationships with hugely older men have been short-term-by-partial-design or flings, so the baggage was generally not a major issue. I'm not for one moment denying that there are practical issues likely to arise with relationships in which one party is massively older than another, as I say. It's the bafflement with the sexual attraction itself that I find, well, baffling. I've had light ribbing over the relationships and/or crushes on much much older blokes from men and women alike, but very very seldom have people seemed to find it freakishly odd.

Re Gosling, he looks his age IMO. He looks great, and obviously well groomed and beautifully dressed, but he looks 40. Tom Hardy is 42 (incidentally not my cup of tea, prefer then a little cleaner cut!) and also definitely looks his age. You probably wouldn't find a vast swathe of women in their late teens or early 20s that'd tell them to go swivel, celebrity or no.

Also, there is a reasonable amount of decent quality evidence that suggests that the tendency for young/youngish women to be attracted to significantly older men is fairly widespread and something for which there is an apparent biological basis.

As I understand it middle age is usually defined from the mid 40s to the mid 60s so no, I wouldn't consider a 40-year-old to be middle aged.

Not sure where you got that 'definition' from but whatever way you slice it, a man in his early 40s is twice your age and could have children your age. That's a huge gap and even if you like to play it down, you can be certain the men are aware of it.

You probably wouldn't find a vast swathe of women in their late teens or early 20s that'd tell them to go swivel, celebrity or no.

Well no, just as you probably won't find a lot of men turning down women like Charlize Theron or Sofia Vergara who are also in their 40s. I don't think hot celebrities are really relevant here.

Also, there is a reasonable amount of decent quality evidence that suggests that the tendency for young/youngish women to be attracted to significantly older men is fairly widespread and something for which there is an apparent biological basis.

I'd be fascinated to see this 'evidence'. As I say it totally goes against all my experiences talking to women about this topic but I accept that is anecdotal. The 'biological' basis is particularly puzzling given that older men have been proven to have poorer sperm quality, take longer to get a woman pregnant and even if they do, the chances of that pregnancy resulting in miscarriage or birth defects are higher.

I fail to see any reason why an older man is a better 'biological' bet than a young man, so I await your 'evidence'. Also, if the actual evidence from dating sites - and indeed from marriage statistics - is anything to go by, women consistently express a preferance for men in their own age range, plus or minus about 5 years. Surely this wouldn't be the case if what you are saying is correct?

Sure, but its not the general norm.

Look at this link- it shows the census survey of marriages and age gaps. The highest % of marriages occurred between men and women with an age gap of 1-3 years. I'm actually surprised that the highest amount is an age gap of 1 year! I thought it would be more than that.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships

IcedPurple I think you’re imputing something here that I’m not actually saying. I’m very well aware of the chasm you’re referring to - as I’ve said, it’s a large part of the appeal, sexually speaking.

Re definition:

It's gross! and totally due to your daddy issues I think! Makes him look pathetic, enjoy being his carer if you stick with him.

And regarding the evidence that there is a potential biological basis, Google has thrown up some results that appear relevant.

The subject is investigated quite a bit in this:

www.macmillanihe.com/page/detail/The-Social-Psychology-of-Attraction-and-Romantic-Relationships/?K=9781137324825%20

From a brief perusal of the search terms most of the studies are throwing up similar things, ie that the theory is that by simply still being around (and in decent nick, presumably), older men are signalling an advantageous degree of DNA fitness.

Logically, there's also the fact that there are certain traits in men generally deemed sexually valuable by women that are more likely to be present in older men.

And re hot celebrities, I don't think this is irrelevant at all. Hot celebrity men in their 20s tend to be more the province of teenage fans, usually by 20 something young women tend on the whole to have graduated to the Goslings and Hardys. And while both are wealthy and successful, both also look their age and neither are without compare in the civilian world - I know plenty of men of comparable attractiveness. Of course the more attractive of every sex and generation have a leg up, so to speak. That does go without saying, I think.

beautifulstranger101 sure, but people tend to assign priority to different traits when looking for a lifetime partner vs a short term fling.

I've never been into bad boys (which I consider a good fortune!) but there are still undoubtedly traits, scenarios etc that I find erotic that I would steer clear of - or at least be less preoccupied with - when assessing someone's suitability as a potential co-parent and partner of potentially many decades. Hence, my DH is much closer in age to me than would generally be my sexual ideal, and has a different personality type than many previous partners, which has its cons but definitely has its pros when it comes to the maintenance of a functional, happy home for us and our DCs.

And regarding the evidence that there is a potential biological basis, Google has thrown up some results that appear relevant.

None of which you have linked to. A link to a book doesn't count as I can't read it.

From a brief perusal of the search terms most of the studies are throwing up similar things, ie that the theory is that by simply still being around (and in decent nick, presumably), older men are signalling an advantageous degree of DNA fitness.

That's not evidence at all. That's a theory. And a pretty odd one given the proven evidence (that you have ignored) showing that older men are less likely to produce healthy offspring than younger men. Also, wouldn't the same "advantageous degree of DNA fitness" be present in older women too?

Logically, there's also the fact that there are certain traits in men generally deemed sexually valuable by women that are more likely to be present in older men.

Sorry, but how is that 'logical'? You again ignore the evidence that most women don't fancy much older men. They just don't. As I've said, women consistently express a preference for same age men on dating sites and most marriages have an age gap of under 5 years. If women were gagging for decades older men, then surely the internet woudln't be heaving with men in their 40s desperate to find younger women? Surely the average marriage age gap would be much higher than it is?

Hot celebrity men in their 20s tend to be more the province of teenage fans, usually by 20 something young women tend on the whole to have graduated to the Goslings and Hardys

Again, so what? There are plenty of hot actresse in their 40s too, with plenty of younger male fans. None of which changes the fact - and yes it is a fact - that most young women are not looking to date men in their 40s. They simply aren't.