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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU or is this child abuse?

142 replies

StressedDuck · 30/12/2019 17:23

Basically a lot has gone on between me and my ex with our 2 yr old son. I’m pretty sure my ex and his gf emotionally abuse my son but I’m not sure how serious it is and if everything I think is abuse actually is counted as abuse.
I’ll start off with his gf. Shes been around from the beginning and the whole time she been throwing things around our son, like her phone or charger, and shouting and causing arguments with my ex about the tiniest things in front of my son. She’s also calling herself mummy to my son and controls when I can see him. She also verbally abuses me and puts me down in front of my son.
Now I will get to my ex. He’s had custody of my son since he was 6 months. I voluntarily gave him custody because I was struggling and I thought it was what was best at the time. Ever since then he has told me multiple lies to get things the way he wants and attempts to manipulate me. He also verbally abuses me and my partner and has threatened to hit my partner before. He makes rules he wants me to stick to and if I dont, I dont get to see my son. I asked him if I could take my son to my stepdads for boxing day or my family gathering on new years (different parts of the family) so he can see his family and get xmas presents but he declined, saying they dont make any effort the rest of the year, but they wont want to talk to my ex and they never know when i have him so its difficult for them to see him. A few days before xmas I asked him to give me an hour with my son at my house (which breaks one of his rules) so he could open his xmas presents from me. He said no but I had had enough of playing by his rules so I just took my son, which I know wasn’t the best decision but an hour for my son to open his presents isnt unreasonable. He is now saying he wants to remove my parental responsibility because I ‘tried to kidnap him’ (which I cant do when hes my child) and has thrown a lot of verbal abuse at me, which is making me worry for my safety as well as my sons. During this he also asked me for my address because he said the health visitor is updating her records,which I’m pretty sure is a lie since I’m not the resident parent. So he just wants my address (I just moved a few months ago) which is scaring me and my partner a bit.
I know I didn’t go into too much detail, but can all this be counted as emotional abuse? And is it bad enough to contact a child support line to ask their advice?

OP posts:
ACouchOfOnesOwn · 30/12/2019 21:21

It doesn't sound like child abuse and it also doesn't sound UR for your ex to want your address when you've already taken your child to your house without agreement.

You need to see a solicitor and seek legal advice but you need to focus on why you gave up custody and why you now think it's safe for you to have custody. Your DC is the most important person in this and you seem to be putting your bf and your needs before them atm.

JockTamsonsBairns · 30/12/2019 21:23

pretty sure you can kidnap your own child especially if you don’t have custody of the child.

That's not my experience at all. When ds1 was a toddler, ex-h had him on a Sunday from 11-4 (no court order, just an arrangement between the two of us). One Sunday, ex-h was late bringing him home, then it got very late - I had been on the phone to the police and my solicitor's emergency number but apparently, since their were no immediate safeguarding concerns, nobody was particularly bothered. He had PR after all. I eventually got him back at 2.30am, because he wouldn't settle and was crying. I'd been frantic, but there was nothing anyone could do.

AMxx · 30/12/2019 21:24

OP - You don't say much about why you choose for your son to live with you ex; I imagine that must have been a very difficult decision. I'm sorry. It must now be even more heartbreaking for it to be so hard to have contact. I had post natal and know how desperately hard things were for longer than I care to admit.

Do not give out your address unless you are comfortable. There is no obligation on you to do so. In fact, you absolutely should not if you don't feel safe. Contact can be arranged in a 'safe' place therefore there is no need for your ex to ever know where you live - your parents may be a good handover place for example.

You do really need a contact and residency agreement. It is not right for one parent to use a child as a bargaining chip; that is abusive both to you and the child. You both need to act in the child's best interest and the child has a right to see both parents consistently (unless there are compelling reasons why time should be limited for the child's benefit - not just because your ex is on a power trip...).

Domestic abuse can and does exist in child contact arrangements and it is extremely damaging to a child. Abuse often gets worse during contact. Call Women's Aid please, they are amazing. If you are allocated a Women's Aid care worker they can even come to court with you as a Mackenzie friend to support you. It is not for fair for your ex to refuse for you to see your child at your home unless there is a very good reason it would not be safe for the child to be in your care, in that environment. CAFCASS will assess both of you and make that decision. The ex's GF sounds delightful (NOT) however they are unlikely to insist she can't be around; I'm afraid much of what you describe is sadly par for the course (not the throwing stuff at him). I am not saying this is right or that I agree with this, rather the way it is. You need to be above all of it - not engage in arguments, or nastiness, do not berate your ex to your child etc. Taking your child (whilst I fully understand your desperation) wasn't ideal. Personally, I would have called the Police but I do wonder how you managed to do this? Was the child not supervised?? Or do you mean that he gave consent for you to have the child, just you didn't have him where he said you could and he found out? If the latter, then you had every right to take your child home. A detailed contact order defining when, where, times etc should eliminate the need for much contact between you and your ex.

If you cannot afford the solicitors fees to go to court you may find Corman Children's Legal Center helpful. They have a free advice line staffed by qualified lawyers who can provide guidance.

In terms of abuse, be aware the family courts set a very high bar for what constitutes abuse that would be considered sufficient to refuse contact. That said, the NSPCC have a helpline you can call to seek advice (without giving your name if you wish). They are equipped to tell you if the behaviour is abuse.

PM me anytime.

OkPedro · 30/12/2019 21:24

op didn’t “bugger” off
She said she couldn’t cope!

JockTamsonsBairns · 30/12/2019 21:24

This was 18 years ago, and in Scotland, if it's relevant.

AMxx · 30/12/2019 21:28

pretty sure you can kidnap your own child especially if you don’t have custody of the child

also not my experience... an order would be required to return the child to the resident parent...

CJsGoldfish · 30/12/2019 21:40

OP, have you had regular contact and been paying maintenance for your child? You don't seem to have answered that question and I think it is quite relevant here.

How have you addressed whatever the problems you had when you gave custody to your ex? Counselling at the very least I hope? This will go towards your case when you go to court.

You seem to know a lot about what goes on in their home and I'm wondering how? Also wondering what, if anything, your bf has done to be 'threatened' by your ex. There is obviously a whole lot more going on here and I'm not sure why your bf, surely a stranger to your child, has such an important standing in this whole fucked up scenario?

You need to put your CHILD first here. Think hard about what that means and then take appropriate, legal steps towards that

Sotiredofthislife · 30/12/2019 21:44

should frankly be grateful the child has a mother figure in its life seeing as she relinquished that right by not being in his life

No. She absolutely doesn’t have to be grateful if the mother figure is abusive towards her child. Said mother figure made a choice to get with a man who has his child full time and live with that. There is no relinquishing your right to be in a child’s life, particularly in the way it has been described by the OP. Indeed, would you say that a father who walks out on his partner and children relinquishes the right to see them? Or are you only applying that standard to mothers?

I think you are massively projecting and even if the OP is mentally unwell and an awful parent, her child still has a right to a relationship with her and clearly the OP wants a relationship with her. No abandonment, no relinquishment.

Sotiredofthislife · 30/12/2019 21:46

OP - you may get less judgemental help through Match - matchmothers.org

Hope it all works out.

lilmishap · 30/12/2019 21:48

it also doesn't sound UR for your ex to want your address
OP is the NRP because she felt it was in her sons best interests to be away from her as she felt she was struggling, ex has said she is not allowed to take DS home because he doesn't like her BF (who it seems is frightened of him) not because he has concerns about her, he also denied his son Xmas time with his family because they don't like him, he has violent tendencies.

He has NO legal right to make these demands or to threaten people with violence, that is unreasonable and not in the childs best interests.
His behaviour is about control, it is textbook abusive behaviour.

OP has every right to live free from the fear he might turn up at her home address, if he was genuinely concerned he would have said that and not lied claiming the HV wanted it.

Greysparkles · 30/12/2019 22:13

Quite honestly this sounds like a load of bollocks. Theres more holes in this story than Swiss cheese.

lilmishap · 30/12/2019 22:24

OP from one of your other posts the GF and him have split before and she got the UC payment (after they split) she only gave the money to him on the condition she could see your son.

Despite working and having a child he was unable to pay bills, so he had to get back with her.
She would have left them without money unless she got to see him.
He told you all of the above, so all you KNOW is that he is shit with money and they split up then got back together.

Your son is being used not just to control you but to control her as well.

Why are your family not more involved in this? If they are supportive/stable they would be a valuable asset right now.

He does not have legal custody because that requires an arrangement, but what if he and GF split for good?
What if GF wants custody of the child she's been bringing up for 18 months and he agrees to it as a private 'no courts needed' arrangement (she already gets UC for being his caregiver)?
What then?
How will it affect DS?

You need a contact order AT LEAST to establish some routine and stability in your sons' life.
You and the ex are not 'on good terms' he is deceitful and manipulative, if you appear to be on good terms it's because you're doing what he wants you to.

TrueCrimeFan · 31/12/2019 05:04

Agree you need legal advice

GiveHerHellFromUs · 31/12/2019 05:40

@lilmishap you appear to have selective reading Hmm

The ex has concerns that OP will harm their child.
The new boyfriend who is a stranger to him and their child is additional (and justified) concern.

He denied contact with her family at Christmas because they don't attempt to have contact at any other time of the year. Again, justified. What responsible parent would send a 2 year old to a house full of strangers? OP should also have made the request in advance.

The HV may want her address. For all we know he's spoke to her about his safeguarding concerns.

Mummyoflittledragon · 31/12/2019 05:44

GiveHerHell
You are the one with selective reading skills. Op has the right to take her child to see the people she wishes in any house she chooses as long as she keeps him safe. Anything else is controlling. I’m struggling to believe the ex has genuine concerns beyond the concern of loosening his grip and influence on his child.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 31/12/2019 05:54

@Mummyoflittledragon how? His mother gave him up at 6 months old because she couldn't cope.

She has no regular contact in place presumably, as she refused to answer that question.
The ex has looked after the child for 18 months and now OP has a new house with her boyfriend she wants to play happy families.

He has concerns that she won't cope or will hurt her child. Those are big concerns.

It doesn't matter where SHE wants to take him.
What about the child? Taken from his safe place on Xmas day to be hounded by a group of practical strangers?

I have been the child in this situation. Presumably you haven't and I'm glad about that.
It's scary and intense and he's 2 bloody years old. She needs to think about what's right for the child rather than bad mouthing the couple who've spent the last 18 months raising him without any SS involvement.

If she had genuine concerns she'd contact SS and she hasn't.

He asked for her address for the HV and she won't give it. He's compliant with all authorities and she won't even do that.

Mummyoflittledragon · 31/12/2019 06:00

I’m sorry you’ve been in that situation. I’m not reading this at all the same as you. The way I read this is op does not have regular contact to because of the ex’s and his gf’s controlling behaviour. Op can independently contact the hv. He doesn’t have the right to her address. As for SS involvement, she’s asking if it’s considered abuse. When you’re being coerced and controlled it is very difficult to see what is normal and what is abuse.

KnowMenClature · 31/12/2019 06:07

The ex lied. He has no right to OPs address, and no HV would expect ex to provide someone else's s address. OP has every right to hide her address if she and/or her partner are scared or feel threatened.

OP has been open about not coping. Many women living under domestic abuse (whether they realise it or not) have that same experience of feeling unable to cope. The effects of da are far reaching and often not recognised as that.

It will speak volumes to any decent HV that the baby's father doesn't know the DMs address.

OP, you urgently need to describe the situations to others like your child's HV, GP, and to discuss all those situations with the Wa helpline.

I do wonder how you know all the detail about the behaviour around your child when inside the RPs home. How can you know that the RPs gf often throws things like phones and chargers for example.

My main concern is for this child who currently seems to be living with a very abusive father.

It is commonly the outcome that abusive fathers control any dc this way, so shouldn't be a surprise to any.

KnowMenClature · 31/12/2019 06:11

Taken from his safe place on Xmas day to be hounded by a group of practical strangers

Thats very dramatic, and also unfounded, so made up.

spingly · 31/12/2019 06:32

OP forget your boyfriend for the time being and god is on a good relationship with your child. Take him to soft play, cafe, park etc and spend time with home there. Don't stay in the house with your ex and his partner, remove the child from the toxic situation.

I assume that you've had some help to deal
with why you weren't coping with your child?

Both you and your ex want to control
each other and subsequent relationships, you can't do that (within reason).

GiveHerHellFromUs · 31/12/2019 08:07

Thats very dramatic, and also unfounded, so made up.

The boy is 2 years old and they don't bother with him other than at Christmas (whatever the reason, whoever we want to blame) . They're practically strangers.

They'll be his grandparents, uncles and aunts, so they'll miss and love him, I'm sure, so they'll want cuddles and to talk to him and see how he's grown and developed. It'd be intense.
So explain how I'm being dramatic?

Especially when you're defending a woman accusing her ex's girlfriend of abuse when she's the one who's bringing her son up.

@Mummyoflittledragon I do understand where you're coming from, completely. I think as a general rule we side with the OP and assume that their version of events is right and true. My concern is that she's accusing the GF of abuse that she can't possibly know even happens.

That with the ex is very different because without knowing them both we can only take OPs word that he does what he does to get at her, not to protect the child. I've known women give up their children because they can't cope (my own included). To then just expect her son back because she feels better, with little regard for anyone else, seems unreasonable to me. As you say we're reading it differently but I'm taking it that he is genuinely doing what's best for the child.

The HV may well have no means of contacting OP now that she's moved address but yes, OP could just ask for her phone number and sort it herself which would be sensible, especially if she wants formal contact/residency, as she'll need the HV on side.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 31/12/2019 08:08

^bold fail. That first bits for you @KnowMenClature

KnowMenClature · 31/12/2019 08:17

Can you point out where you got that the child would be hounded by its family from?

GiveHerHellFromUs · 31/12/2019 08:27

@KnowMenClature I think I made it very clear with this comment:

*The boy is 2 years old and they don't bother with him other than at Christmas (whatever the reason, whoever we want to blame) . They're practically strangers.

They'll be his grandparents, uncles and aunts, so they'll miss and love him, I'm sure, so they'll want cuddles and to talk to him and see how he's grown and developed. It'd be intense.*

That's what families are like with children they never see. OP didn't argue when the ex said they never see him.

KnowMenClature · 31/12/2019 09:14

Again, can you point out where you got that the child would be hounded by its family from?

Hounding is nasty.

We have no information that I've seen that would lead us to this conclusion.