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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU or is this child abuse?

142 replies

StressedDuck · 30/12/2019 17:23

Basically a lot has gone on between me and my ex with our 2 yr old son. I’m pretty sure my ex and his gf emotionally abuse my son but I’m not sure how serious it is and if everything I think is abuse actually is counted as abuse.
I’ll start off with his gf. Shes been around from the beginning and the whole time she been throwing things around our son, like her phone or charger, and shouting and causing arguments with my ex about the tiniest things in front of my son. She’s also calling herself mummy to my son and controls when I can see him. She also verbally abuses me and puts me down in front of my son.
Now I will get to my ex. He’s had custody of my son since he was 6 months. I voluntarily gave him custody because I was struggling and I thought it was what was best at the time. Ever since then he has told me multiple lies to get things the way he wants and attempts to manipulate me. He also verbally abuses me and my partner and has threatened to hit my partner before. He makes rules he wants me to stick to and if I dont, I dont get to see my son. I asked him if I could take my son to my stepdads for boxing day or my family gathering on new years (different parts of the family) so he can see his family and get xmas presents but he declined, saying they dont make any effort the rest of the year, but they wont want to talk to my ex and they never know when i have him so its difficult for them to see him. A few days before xmas I asked him to give me an hour with my son at my house (which breaks one of his rules) so he could open his xmas presents from me. He said no but I had had enough of playing by his rules so I just took my son, which I know wasn’t the best decision but an hour for my son to open his presents isnt unreasonable. He is now saying he wants to remove my parental responsibility because I ‘tried to kidnap him’ (which I cant do when hes my child) and has thrown a lot of verbal abuse at me, which is making me worry for my safety as well as my sons. During this he also asked me for my address because he said the health visitor is updating her records,which I’m pretty sure is a lie since I’m not the resident parent. So he just wants my address (I just moved a few months ago) which is scaring me and my partner a bit.
I know I didn’t go into too much detail, but can all this be counted as emotional abuse? And is it bad enough to contact a child support line to ask their advice?

OP posts:
WonderfulAngel · 30/12/2019 19:13

when you go to lawyer and court etc etc you want to come across as measured and credible. thats difficult because this is something you feel strongly about but try your best

Original poster
StressedDuck · 30/12/2019 19:13

Thank you. I did have a look at the NSPCC website and had a look at emotional abuse and it did sound like its what hes doing to my son.
When i gave him custody we were on good talking terms and I gave him two terms to him having custody. He said he agreed with my terms (he quits his job to look after him himself and his gf not be around constantly because i was adjusting to another woman being around my son all the time) and he agreed but he broke them both instantly. Ive always tried to come to reasonable agreements but he just lies to me or manipulates me to get his way. His gf also controls him and my son and my ex allows it, even though it means i dont see my son

OP posts:
ProfessionalBoss · 30/12/2019 19:13

In the UK you cannot kidnap your own child, especially in this case, where there is no official order by the court.

If either parent refuses to hand over the child, and the police are called, then they can ask for the parent to give the child back to his usual custodian, but they cannot demand it or remove the child!

This situation is where social workers become involved, and the matter goes to court... The amount of misinformation being given out is astounding, by those who think they know everything... Hmm

EC22 · 30/12/2019 19:13

Your child has been with their father for 18 months from a very young age, his dad is his main care, his girlfriend may have a very close bond with your child, you must think what is best for your son.

FrivolousPancake · 30/12/2019 19:14

I don’t blame your ex not wanting new random male around his son, your child is 80% likely to be abused or harmed by him.

Why don’t you focus on learning how to be a mother again and growing a bond with your son leaving your boyfriend out of it for now? Why is he anything to do with all this? Your son is the important one here.

HideYourBabiesAndYourBeadwork · 30/12/2019 19:15

The fighting, the throwing objects, the slagging you off in front of your son definitely counts as emotional abuse (been to family court, had social care involved, ex and I were both explicitly told that this type of behaviour is abusive).

Go to a solicitor to sort this mess out as soon as you can. The longer you leave it the less likely things will swing in your favour.

ProfessionalBoss · 30/12/2019 19:15

@StressedDuck contact a lawyer if you want to regain custody, and social Work directly and immediately have concerns about the welfare of your child.

UtuNorantiPralatongsThirdEye · 30/12/2019 19:15

He said he agreed with my terms (he quits his job to look after him himself and his gf not be around constantly because i was adjusting to another woman being around my son all the time) and he agreed but he broke them both instantly. Ive always tried to come to reasonable agreements

I don't think those were reasonable terms at all.

FrivolousPancake · 30/12/2019 19:16

*more likely

Noideasorry · 30/12/2019 19:16

*In the UK you cannot kidnap your own child, especially in this case, where there is no official order by the court.

If either parent refuses to hand over the child, and the police are called, then they can ask for the parent to give the child back to his usual custodian, but they cannot demand it or remove the child!

This situation is where social workers become involved, and the matter goes to court... The amount of misinformation being given out is astounding, by those who think they know everything...*

This. ^^

And even if a court order is in place, of police do not have immediate safeguarding concerns for the child, the parents will usually be directed to their solicitors to report the breach and for it to go back to court. Police rarely get involved.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 30/12/2019 19:22

He doesn't know your partner and you said you couldn't cope when your son lived with you.

It's completely reasonable to have concerns about you having unsupervised contact somewhere your son doesn't know.

How often do you see your son?

ponies4life · 30/12/2019 19:26

Professional and Noideasorry are absolutely right in what they have said. The only thing I would say is you need to be 100% certain you are now able to take on this responsibility and it is the right decision for your son. If you genuinely believe that there are safeguarding concerns you need to act quickly, otherwise I would see about 50/50 care so he has equal time with both parents. The only life he has known is with his Dad and his gf so you need to ensure that anything you do is actually in his best interests. You may also have to prove that you are able to parent him as up until now it has only be supervised access. I would suggest that you voluntarily attend a parenting course even if you don't believe you need to. Also keep any texts where contact has been refused.

sobeyondthehills · 30/12/2019 19:32

Are you still homeless?

PepePig · 30/12/2019 19:37

You both sound awful, to be honest.

Both need to buck up your ideas and get it together for your poor child.

Mol5 · 30/12/2019 19:40

You have asked to have the child at your address and then taken them without consent, so I think IMO it's reasonable for your ex to want to know the address to ensure child is safe.

How do you know what happens in their home, did your 2 year old tell you his step-mother throws her phone charger? Hmm

As PPs have said best to consult a solicitor and follow proper contact methods or you'll only make your case weaker.

thedancingbear · 30/12/2019 19:42

There is wrongdoing on both sides here, but I think the child abduction probably trumps the OP's ex's swearing and that.

Verily1 · 30/12/2019 19:50

You need to read up on attachment as this is vitally important in custody and contact decisions.

If your dc has his primary secure attachment to his dad or step mum then the courts will go with them unless there is conclusive evidence they are causing him significant harm and have no capacity to change.

The best you can probably get is contact.

Start with letterbox, then telephone then supervised then unsupervised then overnights. It’s a long haul.

What is ex’s issue with your dp? Does he have any criminal record? Any drug or alcohol use? Any mental health issues? Does he have a stable life/ good job/ own house?

HarrietThePi · 30/12/2019 19:51

I don't understand how you know so much about their home life or how you were able to take your son away if the contact you have is supervised by them?

ShineYourLight2 · 30/12/2019 19:52

@crispysausagerolls I totally agree. Far too easy to automatically assume one point of view is the truth.

Lovemusic33 · 30/12/2019 19:58

I don’t really understand how you can know how the gf behaves around the child if your not there? Please can you explain? Your child is 2 so can’t tell you how she’s treating him.

You handed your son over and agreed to him being the main carer, until you get something in writing (a court order) there’s not much you can do. You need to take this to court. I also agree with what others have said about your ex needing to know your address as he needs to know where you are taking your ds and I suspect he is worried that you will take him.

There are always 2 sides to a story and I’m guessing there’s more to this.

Naillig222 · 30/12/2019 20:04

Your two conditions of giving up custody of your own child were that he quit his job and not have his gf around? Really?
I don't know what I'd do if my ex started demanding I quit my job. I would think he had lost the plot to he honest.

Also if you are so terrified of this man that you cannot tell him where you live then how could you leave your child with him?
The whole situation sounds a mess.

Merrymumoftwo · 30/12/2019 20:08

You need to see a solicitor and as others have said keep a record and ensure a reasonable tone. You will also need to factor in the following in your discussion with the solicitor
You asked your child’s father to give up work to care full time for your son. Were you paying child support to enable this? If not that will not be seen as a reasonable request as your ex will argue he needed to provide four DS as you were not giving any money. Only possible exception is child with disabilities needing care.
Despite resident parent stating they did not want you to take son away to your address you did so. Yes you returned him but from a family court perspective you removed the child without permission while not a crime it does cause concerns over unsupervised access in future. As someone has already said you need to prove you are over whatever caused you to give up your son and prove you can provide a stable and secure home. Speak to a solicitor

Nicknacky · 30/12/2019 20:09

How did you manage to remove your child given that he is only 2?

lilmishap · 30/12/2019 20:11

You taking your son home for an hour is of no importance AT ALL.
Not unless you are forbidden to be with him by authorities.
This site is full of posts where NRP has not returned the kids and there is nothing the police can do unless there is an order in place.

The lying and manipulation alongside his temper and cruel streak has me questioning how freely you gave up your son, you say you were struggling but it seems to me this man decides how you feel.

Convincing you that you were doing the right thing by giving up your son to a man you must have known was cruel enough to use him against you is a pretty clear indicator of how much control he wields over you and it isn't normal.

Was there coercive control in your relationship? because there's a hell of a lot now and it's not very subtle either.

Have you ever seen a solicitor or sought professional advice because there's a nasty undercurrent to all this that is quite obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of abusers and the abused.

He is not sounding like a desirable parent so I'm guessing he doesn't want social services anywhere near him and likely wouldn't want you going to court either?

Thetruthwillout80 · 30/12/2019 20:14

You must have been in some awful way to give your (ex) partner FULL custody Shock.

I feel for you Sad