AIBU or is this child abuse?

[StressedDuck]

Basically a lot has gone on between me and my ex with our 2 yr old son. I’m pretty sure my ex and his gf emotionally abuse my son but I’m not sure how serious it is and if everything I think is abuse actually is counted as abuse.
I’ll start off with his gf. Shes been around from the beginning and the whole time she been throwing things around our son, like her phone or charger, and shouting and causing arguments with my ex about the tiniest things in front of my son. She’s also calling herself mummy to my son and controls when I can see him. She also verbally abuses me and puts me down in front of my son.
Now I will get to my ex. He’s had custody of my son since he was 6 months. I voluntarily gave him custody because I was struggling and I thought it was what was best at the time. Ever since then he has told me multiple lies to get things the way he wants and attempts to manipulate me. He also verbally abuses me and my partner and has threatened to hit my partner before. He makes rules he wants me to stick to and if I dont, I dont get to see my son. I asked him if I could take my son to my stepdads for boxing day or my family gathering on new years (different parts of the family) so he can see his family and get xmas presents but he declined, saying they dont make any effort the rest of the year, but they wont want to talk to my ex and they never know when i have him so its difficult for them to see him. A few days before xmas I asked him to give me an hour with my son at my house (which breaks one of his rules) so he could open his xmas presents from me. He said no but I had had enough of playing by his rules so I just took my son, which I know wasn’t the best decision but an hour for my son to open his presents isnt unreasonable. He is now saying he wants to remove my parental responsibility because I ‘tried to kidnap him’ (which I cant do when hes my child) and has thrown a lot of verbal abuse at me, which is making me worry for my safety as well as my sons. During this he also asked me for my address because he said the health visitor is updating her records,which I’m pretty sure is a lie since I’m not the resident parent. So he just wants my address (I just moved a few months ago) which is scaring me and my partner a bit.
I know I didn’t go into too much detail, but can all this be counted as emotional abuse? And is it bad enough to contact a child support line to ask their advice?

There's a lot more to this.

OP:
Do you live with your bf?
Why is your ex concerned about you hurting your child?
Have you hurt your child in the past whilst suffering PND or were you woried you could and he is using this against you?
If you are so scared of your ex why do you allow your child to be with him?
Has your Ex ever been violent towards you/your child?
Is the problem his GF or him?
Have you told your ex that any shouting in front of child is unacceptable?
Would your current BF be happy to have your child live with you/him?
Are you ready to take on full parental custody right now?

I'm not looking for you to answer me, OP - but you need to be able to answer these questions to yourself - be honest with yourself. Maybe, now is the right time - but maybe it is not. Do not do things because people expect you to do so - do them because you are acting in the best interest of your child.
Best wishes.

See a solicitor. Your whole situation is a mess.

although incredibly curious to know how you are aware the step mum behaves as she does, when it is highly unlikely your 2 year old is telling you

This is untrue:
Despite resident parent stating they did not want you to take son away to your address you did so. Yes you returned him but from a family court perspective you removed the child without permission while not a crime it does cause concerns over unsupervised access in future.

A parent with parental responsibility is allowed to
take the child wherever they like. It does not cause concerns from a court perspective. The resident parent does not get to stipulate conditions onto the other parent who has joint parental responsibility and at this time, wrong or rightly, they both have as much right as the other. There is no one parent that outranks the other. Again, not saying I agree but it's how it is.

It comes as a shock to a lot of split parents that they cannot stipulate who an ex takes their children around or where they take the children unless there are serious safeguarding concerns. If a parent for example agrees not to introduce a girlfriend / new boyfriend etc, then that's them trying to be reasonable, because they don't have to be dictated to.

Some of the well meaning advice on this thread is very wrong, you would be better calling a solicitor for exact advice.

1.you need to go to court to arrange contact. Not look into it, actually go and do it,ideally with the help of a solicitor. It's unlikely though that you will get full custody anytime soon.

2.your demands were ridiculous and unreasonable. You can't expect him to give up work and his source of income on your say so.

1. Are you in a better place right now? Stable? Have you had counselling or support/help? Do you have a job? A stable home? Could your boyfriend be seen in any way as a risk ?

1. You need facts,straight and to the point. Not opinion,not fishing. Other than the arguments and swearing is your son neglected or harmed in any way?

Noideasorry. The reason I mentioned that was having been in family court this was something flagged (may not be the best term) by the advocate for the child in question and social services. Parents had equal responsibilities but because child had been given up by parent struggling to cope this came up. Hence suggesting op discusses it with solicitor as well as ensuring she can show that whatever caused her to make that decision is no longer an issue and she is making decisions based on what’s best for her son rather than what’s best for her. Which this decision re opening presents could be seen as

He wasn't that violent when I was with him

I don't think you're the best person to judge what an acceptable level of violence is if you can be convinced that there is an acceptable level.

You talk like a trained victim.

This is the biggest nonsense I’ve ever heard. You did not feel you were able to look after your baby and gave the responsibility to his father, and you sound frankly jealous of the girlfriend’s involvement despite how she has probably been “there”‘for your child. How do you even know these ins and outs of their relationship!! How could you know how they behave?! It doesn’t sound like you are around much at all - I’m
Sure your ex has some pretty good reasons for not wanting you alone with your child for an hour. For goodness sake snatching your child and running off to an unknown location (to your ex anyway) is just a stupid thing today and would call your mental state into question even more.

I don’t understand what you want from
This. Your ex and his gf probably aren’t perfect but they have been there and it’s stability and you need to work on building up a relationship with them and with your child. By all means involve the courts if you think they are being unfair, but I suspect they are not and there are huge chunks missing from
This story.

Unfortunately, whoever has residency/custody is all too often not looking after their DC in a compassionate way, and frustrating access to the other parent, usually it is the father on the receiving end. However, that doesn't make it right, your 2YO would be better off with less time at their home, you should contact SS, to relay your concerns,, I wouldn't expect too much, but they can at least visit and make an assessment, as emotional abuse is not easily spotted, and they would look for signs. Could you handle a 50/50 split, or will it impede on your work commitments? I have been fighting similar issues on behalf of other couples, I assume your parents don't get much of a look-in either. I have posted on here a mum who uses not seeing dad as a punishment for poor behaviour, although in your case the ex seems like a real bully abusing you as well. Not a very nice person. I very much hope you can change things for the New Year

He is now saying he wants to remove my parental responsibility because I ‘tried to kidnap him’ (which I cant do when hes my child)

Yes you can be accused of kidnap even if it’s your child. And parents have been known to kidnap a child if they feel they don’t have the right access.

Police. Write down everything. Every abuse, every small thing comes to your mind. And go to police right away. Call SS ...he is your son as well. Make copies or anything about the verbal abuse you are getting and I'm telling you it's enough proof they will help you.

I raise a child who’s mother did this, basically didn’t want him so buggared off. I’ve probably been called all the names under the sun by her but I don’t give a fuck, I raised him and I’ve done ALL the ‘mother work’ my partner works shifts so yeah he’s been here with me and now he’s a teen I facilitate contact between them, but I would fight her in court til the end because he’s one of mine.

I’m sorry if it’s not what you wanted to hear but it fucks kids up being left by their moms and someone else is picking up the pieces here like I did.

Not sure I’m the best person to comment really as it’s very emotive for me

Just out of curiosity, how old are you and your ex? Sorry to say but I eel there is immaturity on your part for believing that his Dad should give up work to care for him. The responsible thing is to work and care for your child or how can they provide and how is that setting a good example? I agree with the previous poster about parenting classes.

You ex however does sound terrible and I would be seriously worried if I thought my child was living in the situation you describe. In that instance I would alert the relevant authorities immediately, I wouldn't have taken him back, I would have kept him until the matter was decided through court if I thought my child was in capable hands and saved from a domestically abusive home life.

Without trying to be unkind, you demanded he didn't have his girlfriend around your son and now he doesn't want your bf round your son. I feel terribly sorry for this poor child and I sincerely hope at least one of you actually has his best interests at heart.

your demands were ridiculous and unreasonable. You can't expect him to give up work and his source of income on your say so

The 'demand' sounds like "OK you can have custody IF you give up work to look after him" not "I'm struggling help me and quit your job for me too"
The way OP describes, it sounds as if he told her he was taking
DS but has then manipulated her into thinking she had made the decision and had some control over it by agreeing to abide by her terms-which he had no intention of doing.

OP have you started to see things more clearly since moving away?

@ Noideasorry . I can understand engaging a solicitor, especially given the circumstances of taking the child without the courts permission, but I thought it may save money and embarrassment if SS do an assessment and are entirely happy with DCs current home, it would seem pointless to continue with any degree of success

The way OP describes, it sounds as if he told her he was taking
DS but has then manipulated her into thinking* she had made the decision*

It reads to me like she gave up her son and now wants him back so she can play happy families with her new bf. She has concerns about child's welfare but hasn't bothered to do anything, she seems only concerned about her bfs welfare.
She's hoping we can give her an idea of what to say to convince the courts that he's unfit.

OP, do you have a history of drink/drug addiction or severe mental health problems? Is your current DP someone who drinks a lot or uses drugs?
If neither is the case, then it sounds like your XP is a dangerous bully and you need some proper support and advice - if he simply decided to push you out of your own child's life because he prefers his new partner, that is completely unacceptable. However, if he took over raising your child because you were unable to cope (due to addiction or MH issues) it's unlikely you will get full custody but - if you are better now - you have a legal right to regular contact and should go to court to get this. Your XP cannot cut you off completely and cannot control the rest of your life.

Mumsnet really is full of people who believe women can do no wrong and men are all abusive. Spin this situation round - ‘my ex boyfriend was unstable and couldn’t look after our son on his own. He told me when we split that I could keep our son if I quit my job to look after him. He doesn’t see him regularly any more, only supervised contact because I don’t trust him to look after our son properly. Christmas Day he took our son without my permission, I don’t know where he lives, I had no idea where they were or if my son was ok. What do I do?’

I bet that story wouldn’t be full of people saying that she’s abusive and the ex did nothing wrong by taking the child on Christmas Day 🙄

I raise a child who’s mother did this, basically didn’t want him so buggared off

You know that it is possible for a mother to decide for a while host of reasonable reasons that her ex is better placed to raise their child? That’s really not buggering off. In fact, k owing how harshly we judge women who do this, it’s a brave decision and not one to be commented on when clearly, all the OP wants is to have a relationship with her child which isn’t negatively influenced by her ex and his new partner.

If that ex then starts messing about with contact, making threats, saying nasty stuff, then that is what screws the child up.

Sorry but if he was violent why the hell did you leave your child with him and put yourself first. That's where you have lost my sympathy sorry.
I work day in day out with mother's like you. You make me so angry.

Seems you're a bit too focussed on the boyfriend OP. I always find it odd when parents aren't able to keep the relationship and commitment to their children but can for romantic relationships. Priorities OP.

I'd be the saying the same if you were a man and the NRP. Don't ever have your son overnight, haven't been to court or a solicitor to get proper contact but have managed to invest time in a romantic relationship. I don't get it. If you have concerns, phone SS

You need to get legal advice and advice from women's aid etc asap. The longer he has custody, the harder it may be to unravel.

I would consider giving your address though but get a ring doorbell or CCTV. If he threatens you with violence or your partner, then it will go against him. You can warn him of this. I think that it's a reasonable expectation of co parenting that you know where each other live.

If you want to see more of your child, or believe that he's at risk in any way, then you need to put the welfare of your child above that of your new partner.

Seems you're a bit too focussed on the boyfriend OP.

So often the way.

This is classed as emotional abuse and you have every right to permanently remove your son as there is no legal agreement in place, I would definitely go to the solicitor and get things moving asap

@Sotiredofthislife

I mean Yeha I shortened the story but she didn’t give us the child in my situation, she abandoned him and his grandparents found him. We then took the child in from the grandparents as they are too old and disabled to care for a small child, especially one with abandonment issues. Either way, I understand her giving up the child but she’s got to realise that this other woman has raised this kid and that she must have known this would happen eventually and should frankly be grateful the child has a mother figure in its life seeing as she relinquished that right by not being in his life. Like I say though, I don’t think I’ll ever see it from their point of view as I have personally seen and live with a child who has been abandoned. I’m actually on good terms with birth mum again, but it’s been a long treacherous road and wouldn’t have worked if she’d have been cunning and sly and nasty about it. Although I’m under no impression she thinks I’m anything but a sly cow but meh. Social services obviously oversaw the handover in our case so I guess it is different in that way too.