Cyprus is no longer a safe place for (young, single) women to holiday?

[Kraai]

The teen went back to her ONS's room for consensual sex. When there, 11 of his mates burst in and filmed while three of them then raped her. She went to the police and reported it. They were detained. They said it was consensual and was "with love" (I kid you not!). She was interviewed at length with no legal representation and the police decided she was lying. She was then charged with the crime of making up a crime and has been unable to come home since the summer. The guys were all allowed to return to Israel where some of them have since said things indicating she wasn't lying at all and I'm pretty sure the video was shared (from memory, which may be wrong). She's had psychological evaluation saying she's suffering badly from PTSD.

It's worth noting that the Cyprus is a very popular destination for young Israelis to let off steam before they start national service and there's a strong political tie between the two.

So, AIBU to say that Cyprus is no longer a safe destination for young woman? If the worst happens to you and you report it and the police think you're not a credible witness, YOU will end up in jail. Knowing how traumatic reporting something like a stolen wallet in a foreign police station can be, the idea that a woman would be interviewed without legal representation in a state of severe distress, however that manifests, and then not believed and charged means that men have been given free rein to rape in Cyprus. Especially if it's in a potential "grey zone".

https://www.bbc.com/news/videoandd_audio/headlines/50944483/cyprus-rape-claim-case-it-s-a-very-worrying-conviction

(forgive my typos, on phone typing too fast!)

But @sony there are facts that are a matter of court record that suggest the manner in which the investigation and subsequent court hearings (and trial of the girl herself) which demonstrate failures. Failures that you as a defence lawyer ought to pick up on. They aren't "versions of events"

You've suggested that Cyprus has a robust reliable justice system but you've not set out why you consider that to be the case?

I think its obvious what probably happened. She went back to the hotel room with one of the Israeli boys that she already knew and thought she was having a holiday fling with. Meanwhile the boy and many of his friends planned to turn it into an orgy or at least film their friend having sex with her. There are witness statement s from people thst overhead them olanning this earlier in the day. There is a video of them having sex circulating with the friend filming it secretly over his shoulder. She is on top with her back to him so seemingly was unaware that he was filming her.

At this point the possibilities diverge. Did she say, sure, invite your 10 plus friends to join in (some as young as 15, who lets a 15y old go to Aya Napa?!). Did she turn round and angrily discover the friend filming her and storm out, making up the gang rape story to pay them back (their story)? Or did the kind of boys that had been overhead planning an orgy without her knowledge earlier in the day, the kind of men who celebrate their victory by publicly calling a girl a whore, did they all then burst in excited for the promised orgy and force her to then do non consensual things she did not want to do and had not signed up for when she went back to the room with one man?

I know what sounds most likely to me.
I

Thanks @Bishybarnybee have just emailed

Findumdum1 it is not possible for her to have made up anything. There is physical evidence of rape (or of violent sex with multiple people).

Under such circumstances which of these boys or men would have noticed her giving consent, not consenting, removing consent or anything?

Who watches a woman be violently assaulted and believes she has consented?

Consent was not on their minds IMHO.

yes, I know.

I am not taking a view on things I couldn't possibly know

Er well you are -

All I can say is that entirely false and indeed superfluous allegations of a sexual nature are brought with a regularity and commonality which would shock most.

Clearly a miscarriage of justice.

www.justiceabroad.co.uk/news/defence-to-appeal-after-teenager-found-guilty-of-public-mischief-after-reporting-group-rape-in-cyprus

Phonelock, I am going to assume you are not a Cypriot and therefore stays in hotels with air con and has little to no idea what real life in Cyprus is like. It looks idyllic as a visitor but it can be a hard life. If you are a Cypriot then you clearly have more money than my family. There is a reason we are here in Britain.

The physical evidence for sex with multiple males to have taken place is there. So the only question is was this consented to?

I would say the bruising, the blood in the vagina, the state the woman was in when taken to the doctors and all logic in this case all clearly points to rape.

Anyone arguing this is not the case/cannot be proven to be the case is not being neutral. They are wilfully ignoring the facts.

www.justiceabroad.co.uk/news/update-6-december-2019-evidence-of-forensic-pathologist-mario-matsakis-in-teenagers-cyprus-trial-after-reporting-group-rape?fbclid=IwAR2rO1OAI8wkYcLs-utqFnfCpWkuVzfA4-CEfOEevEV3EoEYFy3oOLl0w-I

Well my daughter and her friends have knocked Cyprus off the mist for next year

Watch the video and the photos of the bedroom (assuming they are true, but I'm sure she would have said if it wasn't her/the room). It might change your mind.

Sadly this type of male herd mentally with sex isnt uncommon. I remember being at school at a house party over 30 years and seeing a group of my friends outside all peering into a basement window. They were watching another friend have a ons with a girl who was a bit odd/social outcast (autistic, I'm sure, looking back). Ok she felt uncomfortable, I think, but I think it was consensual and the other boys didnt burst in. And this was before mobile phones so nobody filmed her without her permission. I have no doubt that they would have done though if they had had them. These were nice, mc boys. Captain of the rugby team, head boy etc etc. They are now nice men, married with children. One is a human rights lawyer. The one having sex with the girl work for the UN with refugee charities.

Clearly the intervening 30 years of internet porn have made things much, much worse. Have any of you seen what men are saying about her on all the incel sites like mensrights, 4 chan etc. Truly disgusting. We need to think how we are going to bring up our male children not to view and treat women like that. we need to empower young women to not feel they have to put themselves in dangerous positions in order to feel equal to men.

Findumdum1 so all I mean is that there is no scenario where she left the room and made up what happened.

Violent sex happened in that room. Blood, semen and bruises reveal what happened.

The only question is did she consent, and continue to consent while being bruised and bleeding or not. And if not, it is is rape. Which means she did not lie and sgould not be in prison and tgis e men should be. It's that simple.

There is no confusion in most people's minds here.

She has been made the scape goat for the actions of these vile youths. Any woman going to that island should know there is no protection in law.

It's got nothing to do with the nature of her relationship to the man she was seeing. It is to do with the vile behaviour of those males and the Cypriot law's criminal activity towards her.

Sorry, cross posted. I've not seen the footage. But I've linked to the forensic evidence.

Lovely victim blaming on this thread. I believe her. Those men should be in prison - instead they're high fiving each other and drinking champagne and laughing about British 'whores'. I won't be going to Cypress ever and I intend to be vocal about why. Cypress won't ever see a penny of mine.

Findumdum1 are you suggesting she would say it is not her in the video? Has she said this?

Is video evidence more trusted than forensic evidence?

I don't see how a country can have a robust justice system if they don't record police interviews - or indeed anything that goes on in a police station.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

what?

I'm saying that it could be argued (by the Israeli men's lawyers) that the footage and photos circulating online might not be real or might not be her (given its mainly on porn sites) - but that surely her team would have said so if that was the case. I notice now the footage is referred to by her defence on the justice abroad website so I assume that means its veracity has been ascertained.

I havent mentioned the forensic evidence. It was clearly mishandled and surely it not even being considered is a clear MOJ.

I'd hope that all evidence of any type would be considered in any legal trial. That clearly hasn't happened here, surely her appeal will go through as a result?!?

I hope so, I hope everything will be gone through but the fact they only photographed her with her shirt on suggests strongly to me there might have been evidence deliberately hidden.

It's also important to remember she did not initially report the rape so the idea she did this to get revenge is crap.

would say the bruising, the blood in the vagina, the state the woman was in when taken to the doctors and all logic in this case all clearly points to rape.

It didn't secure a conviction in the case of Paddy Jackson and his loathsome friends.

The official photo of her in files where the bruises are mentioned o mean.

The one having sex with the girl work for the UN with refugee charities.

Hero by day, raping vulnerable 12yo Haitian girls at night probably.

powershowerforanhour I know. It's a very sad world we live in where some men do what they like and women suffer. I believe the legal system in biased very firmly against women in rape trials. If a make were the victim I do not believe they would so easily assume it was consensual.

Bloody auto correct! Male

I wonder where these young men will end up. Off to do National Service now. Young Israeli women have to do National Service too don't they? Good luck who any young Israeli woman doing National Service with that lot.