Cyprus is no longer a safe place for (young, single) women to holiday?

[Kraai]

The teen went back to her ONS's room for consensual sex. When there, 11 of his mates burst in and filmed while three of them then raped her. She went to the police and reported it. They were detained. They said it was consensual and was "with love" (I kid you not!). She was interviewed at length with no legal representation and the police decided she was lying. She was then charged with the crime of making up a crime and has been unable to come home since the summer. The guys were all allowed to return to Israel where some of them have since said things indicating she wasn't lying at all and I'm pretty sure the video was shared (from memory, which may be wrong). She's had psychological evaluation saying she's suffering badly from PTSD.

It's worth noting that the Cyprus is a very popular destination for young Israelis to let off steam before they start national service and there's a strong political tie between the two.

So, AIBU to say that Cyprus is no longer a safe destination for young woman? If the worst happens to you and you report it and the police think you're not a credible witness, YOU will end up in jail. Knowing how traumatic reporting something like a stolen wallet in a foreign police station can be, the idea that a woman would be interviewed without legal representation in a state of severe distress, however that manifests, and then not believed and charged means that men have been given free rein to rape in Cyprus. Especially if it's in a potential "grey zone".

https://www.bbc.com/news/videoandd_audio/headlines/50944483/cyprus-rape-claim-case-it-s-a-very-worrying-conviction

fllinn

good grief, what a horrible attitude. I am allowed to warn my kids to be careful and not putting themselves into risky positions without being accused of VICTIM BLAMING. We were talking about ONE NIGHT STAND with strangers - since when is that "safe" in anyone's book.

So yes, do fuck off yourself dear.

Are you even going to read that link @FairytaleofButlins ?

Warn your kids whatever you like but do not compare women's bodies, lives, selves to a handbag. It's not my attitude that's the problem. I'd hate to have you on a rape trial jury.

oh don't twist my words will you. You know that is not what I meant

kirinm
I will right now, but not sure why I should be convinced one way or another by a one-off online article? I am sure I could find you someone writing exactly the opposite.

Has that business only been incorporated in March 2019 or is this another one?

It's not an article. It's the defences case which includes references to failures made by the prosecution. It's really quite odd that you don't want to acknowledge that this young girl might not be lying.

@FairytaleofButlins Your analogy to an open handbag is appalling. You can leave a handbag at home to keep it safe. You can't leave your vagina at home so it doesn't matter if you're wearing a short skirt, a burka or a tracksuit.

That line of thinking belongs in the 1970s and I doubt the intelligence of anyone who makes such a moronic comparison.

big jump from not seeing every single man as possible attackers though, isn't it? I teach my kids about PEOPLE, not about irrational attitude and beliefs.

I teach my children about consent. I pay particular attention to it with my son. I also teach them about staying safe.

I also don't presume that because my son/husband/friend/dad are lovely gentle people, then all men are lovely gentle people. Giving that message to both my son and my daughters as they embark on the world would be a bit foolish, don't you think?

There is very little irrational about being wary of men as a class. On this thread people have more or less said "well what do you expect from a man you don't know in these circumstances?" what indeed?

ohnomesandwiches

you clearly blame victims of petty thefts, I don't... that was my point.
You are being ridiculous and you know it. No point trying to argue with people who are being willingly obtuse though, is it.

you clearly blame victims of petty thefts, I don't

Oh good grief

How is it clear...

@FairytaleofButlins

This is from evidence given at the trial.

*"During today’s hearing of the trial the teenager gave evidence that:

· She was in a romantic relationship with one of the Israeli men and that in the beginning he was nice to her but then he began to become jealous and possessive;

· On the night of the rape she had been outside the hotel where they were staying when this man approached her and told her to go with him;

· When she entered the room where he was staying, she noticed that the furniture had been moved about however she did not think much of that at the time;

· They had consensual sex, but the man turned more aggressive than usual;

· At one point some of the other young men came into the room and they were told to get out by the teenager, this upset the teenager;

· The Israeli man told her to lie on the bed and he said “its fine, its fine” then pulled her on to the bed, and then he quickly moved his knees on to her shoulders, putting his penis in her mouth, and as he was doing this he was shouting a lot in Hebrew and there was a lot of commotion, the other boys then came into the room;

· The first man’s penis was so far down the teenager’s throat that she couldn’t breathe but she was trying to throw her head around to get free, as his friends were coming into the room again, they were all shouting and jeering;

· The teenager tried to cross her legs and she was trying to throw her arms around to stop them from raping her, she does not know how many of them actually raped her and there was a lot of commotion and arguing but she could not understand what was being said as they were speaking in Hebrew;

· The teenager managed to escape as the first man began shouting for someone to get him a condom, at this stage he moved his knees off her shoulders, and she was gasping for air and was able to crawl out from beneath him, she managed to get away and put her shorts on, she was screaming and shouting and in an absolute state; and

· That her friends took her to the clinic attached to the hotel, she did not ask for this to happen, that when she was in the clinic the staff there decided to call the doctor and she also did not ask for this to take place, and the teenage and her friends did not ask the doctor to call the Police."*

An account of evidence presented in court from the website of the charity that is offering support to the girl and her family.

www.justiceabroad.co.uk/news/update-3-december-2019-teenager-gives-evidence-in-cyprus-trial-after-reporting-gang-rape

Can you answer my question please. You have simply deflected it with some irrelevant nonsense about petty thefts.

Is your 'no point arguing' code for I'm taking rubbish and I know it? Why are you refusing to argue your point or engage?

kirinm
My argument is that I don't know enough to judge one way or another - I haven't got enough facts to decide. I am not accusing her or anything one way or another, just pointing out that I have no more reason to "blindly believe her" than believing the boys just because she is female.

The only thing I do know is that the press has never been a neutral and reliable reporter of facts. Well done to posters who can read an article and instantly know that x is guilty and y is innocent.

We believe you is about telling rape victims and sexual assault victims that we support them, that we believe what they are saying

Not that we dont want a trial...not that they havent lied or been mistaken

But just that the default is we believe you...not we don’t believe you

Not we dont believe you because, women lie about rape, or you were wearing the wrong thing, or getting in the wrong cab, or having sex with a lad you fancy but maybe haven’t known long

Its not lets skip an investigation or a trial because we KNOW she is telling the truth...it is STARTING with we believe you, we support you, we are sorry this happened

@FairytaleofButlins More rubbish. Hope you read my post above.

In what way do the press not report accurately on court cases? Have you heard of the Contempt of Court Act? As a journalist of many years I'm keen to hear your answer.

ohnomesandwiches
I have argued my point enough, just read the thread. Feel free to keep twisting my words and making me say things I did not...

I could quote the JUDGE in reply to some of the comments, but I am not trying to convince anyone about the guilt or innocence of any party involved. Again, my point is that I don't KNOW - unlike many posters with supernatural abilities.

But keep going if that amuses you so much.

@FairytaleofButlins you have STILL not addressed any of my questions. Either you're a wind up or you have an IQ of 12.

In what way do the press not report accurately on court cases?

As you can read conflicting articles about the exact same case, pretty sure they can't all be that accurate. Just google them. I don't know the technicality, I just read completely different versions.

fairytale

I wonder what you make of ssneks’ post just now?

Or the fact that on the bbc news at ten they are reporting that the foreign office has serious concerns about the fairness of the treatment of this girl??

I'm not sure anyone is amused, fairytale

There is no ambiguity in this case. It's a straight up miscarriage of justice and pretty much what one would expect of the Taliban not a European country.

There is absolutely no way it was proven beyond all reasonable doubt that she lied about being raped.

I feel so sorry for her. She didn't even get the opportunity not to report it as the doctor treating her called the police. Bad enough that the rape wasn't investigated properly but to move from that to prosecuting her. Unbelievable.

Oh and the only evidence against her was that she retracted her statement. Every miscarriage of justice always seems the same. The only evidence is a confession signed when no lawyer is present.

So...you think the press have made up "facts", rather than there being conflicting accounts given in court? Is that what you're saying?

Pretty bold claim.

No vulpine I’m not finding any of this amusing

If this had gone to trial as rape and the young men found not guilty that would be one thing

This travesty is quite another

.you think the press have made up "facts"

NO, that would never happen in a million years, who would believe such a thing. I trust the DM more than the Bible, wouldn't you?

But fairytale, do you trust the BBC or the foreign office or the legal charity??