Happy Impeachment! Next step is removal. (Trump thread 98)

[TheClaws]

In the last thread, Trump was impeached by Congress. Now the question is when the articles will be sent to the Senate for Trial, as - at this stage - there is no guarantee from Mitch McConnell of a fair trial. Trump clings to his belief that his call to Zelensky was “perfect”.

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3732056-Trump-and-the-Giant-Impeachment-Trump-thread-97

If you wonder about Trump’s health, this guy has some interesting posts and contributions from medics in the discussions.

twitter.com/TomJChicago

This closed-door briefing was held for both the Senate and Congress and apparently contained little more than what had been already revealed to the public. (See also the link at the bottom; Rand Paul is also somewhat peeved.)

Steven Portnoy @StevenPortnoy 2hr

Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) is ANGRY after the administration briefing.

"I walked into that briefing undecided" on a War Powers Act resolution.

"That briefing is what changed my mind ... I'm now going to support it."

thehill.com/homenews/senate/477424-rand-paul-mike-lee-rip-administration-over-insulting-and-demeaning-iran

This is what Lindsey Graham thinks of Rand Paul and Mike Lee’s criticism.

Manu Raju @mkraju 47 mins

Just asked Graham about the criticism from Paul and Lee over Iran briefing. “I think they’re overreacting. I’m going to let people know ..to play this game with the war powers act, which I think is unconstitutional, is that whether you mean to or not, you’re empowering the enemy”

Well, now they’re finding out how things work.

Andrew Lawrence @ndrew Lawrence 53 min

Republican senator Mike Lee blasts the Trump administrations post-Iran briefing, says they were told they could not dissent from Trump, couldn't debate it, and if Trump needed justification to go to war "I'm sure we could think of something"
twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1215023947370110976?s=21

Good lord, funnel -- I'm not even sure what is the worse case scenario here, dementia or Adderall addiction.

Maybe it's both of these mixed with malignant narcissism and insatiable greed.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-mental-health-iran-attack-iraq-doctor-psychiatrist-a9275986.html

Could be both lion but the dementia aspect is one that absolutely no one can fix and so the most worrying.

Following that Twitter user is quite enlightening as folk experienced in dementia treatment have pointed out the deterioration in his walking (not picking up his feet and shuffling, increasing difficulty with stairs), uncontrolled spasms linked to moments of verbal incoherence, and his dependence in leaning on the podium when speaking - he no longer does his various hand gestures at his rallies. He isn’t playing golf as much. His vocabulary is getting even worse.

If he is being medicated to try and manage dementia and/or other neurological issues such as stroke or TIA, they will come with their own set of side effects and knock on symptoms.

I am beyond feeling about Trump now. My ire is towards all the enablers putting power ahead of country in not admitting he is not fit to be President - on competence, health and criminal grounds.

Those are also now my thoughts.... if it turns out that he is cognitively impaired then his enablers will have to take the flak for his behaviour

Mm. Interestingly, claiming a stroke or TIA would offer his enablers an escape route. Because it's an event rather than a process, they could claim it had happened while he was in office and that he'd suddenly become unfit for office.

That would allow them to stop supporting him going forwards, without taking responsibility for his or their actions in the past.

Reminds me of Brezhnev.

His team of enablers has become structured to function with trump at it's centre, if trump dropped out because of a health event what would happen to the team without their focal point... would they all turn on each other?
Things could get pretty ugly, surely?

Uglier...

Wasn't there something going on with Reagan with regard to his health?

Although, in Trump's case and the position of his enablers, 'the state of the nation' is the last thing they will ever consider.

www.history.com/news/5-presidents-who-hid-their-health-issues

www.rawstory.com/2020/01/iran-debacle-is-blowing-up-in-trumps-face-as-voters-overwhelmingly-call-president-reckless-report/#.XhcWd86G7uM.twitter

So why do they have all the hoo ha about their health checkups and doctor visits if they are just going to lie anyway?

I assume the requirement for health checks is because of the ones who have lied before. Reagan might be the example that is most edgy, since the Alzheimer's may have been present and rendering him unfit without it being immediately obvious. Polio, back injury and the like were known about at least to the advisors. (Mind you, it is hard to credit that those close to Trump have not noticed that he is as mad as a box of frogs.)

I don't think the American constitution is geared to deal with a pathological liar and petty criminal becoming president.

Not so sure actually when you look back!

I don't think the American constitution is geared to deal with a pathological liar and petty criminal becoming president.

The checks and balances of the constitution are there ready to deal with this situation up to and including impeachement and the twenty fifth for medical incapacitation, but the drafters of the constitution assumed all other players in the co-equal branches of government would be hono(u)rable folk who put country and constitution over party and power.

An argument could be made that the whole point of the Electoral College was to protect voters in the days before everyone could read, no mass media etc and ensure that the best person was elected President , not a petty criminal. Is it fit for purpose in today's world and availability of information?

Nancy Pelosi is speaking about things (the constitution, law, Congress) and Trump will no doubt go bananas again.

fuuuuuuu - R4 just said ‘they’ (Newsweek and CBS) think the Iranian plane was downed by a missile. Holy crap.

Another theory that I heard this morning was that it had collided with a drone, or possibly sucked one into its engine.

If that happened just after take-off from Heathrow I think people would believe it without question and assume it was an accident, but just after take-off in Iran? Nobody is going to credit that it could be anything but deliberate.

It seems that the theory is that it was accidental (they had no reason to do it - and if it was intentional they would have been saying it was the US surely). They offered to send the black box back to the manufacturer. Look how long it took to get to the bottom of the plane the Ukrainians took down on purpose (and it was an open secret that they did).

Fucking trump - why else would they be on high alert of attack eh?

funnelfanjo, 100% right on. Our Founding Fathers simply could not envisage the ethical degeneration of our politicians and legislators.

I also agree with you re; the Electoral College. I feel it's time to 're-think' that but amending the Constitution is a serious step. I've heard discussion and debate, but I would love to see an in-depth documentary or investigative report on the 'pros and cons' with 'learned scholars' (not politicians) of going to a popular vote only system.

I said - backaways- CC ?

@AcrossthePond55 I lived in the US for a while and found this whole topic fascinating. IMHO the US constitution is one of the countries greatest strengths (because it clearly states what the country stands for and allows all folk to unify around it), but also one of its greatest weaknesses (because it has been allowed to ossify and not move with the times, and thus it is so hard to change).

I think it was Jefferson who was concerned about the debt of the living to the dead and wanted the Constitution to be renewed or revised every 20 years or so. If only people had listened to him and convened a new Constitutional Convention every 20-25 years to discuss, revise and endorse. Maybe some of the big issues which have caused such anguish (slavery, segregation, guns, abortion) could have been incrementally dealt with as society progressed to align with public opinion (as happens in countries with Common Law, like the UK), rather than taking massive convulsions in US society to effect change.