Not sure I want to put myself through this again AIBU?

[Countryescape]

I’ll try to keep it brief. Two years ago my parents organised and paid for an all expenses paid trip to Hawaii for my family (me, DH and two kids, my single Brother and my other brother, SIL and their two kids.

To be honest the location was amazing, but in the end we had to just make the best of it because my SIL made it unbearable. We all had to dance to her tune, she was so rude/uptight and it ruined the holiday for me as most of it seemed to be directed at me and my mum. Things she did were:

• refused to go for a walk or spa treatment or lunch with me and my mum the entire trip due to a million different ridiculous reasons.
• Dictated our eating time so we had to eat dinner at 5pm (and start preparing at 4.30pm) EVERY SINGLE NiGHT!
• Never wanted her kids to hang out with ours (too tired, need a snack, don’t like x,y,z)
• Turned down our offers to babysit so her and my brother could enjoy a night out.
• Didn’t come to the animal safari *Didnt come to the waterpark
• Didn’t come to the beach *Didnt want the kids to all have a spa together. *Rudely refused an ice cream for her kids after we had been out in the heat all day

Honestly I could go on and on.

I made such an effort to be nice, kind, accomodating and I’ve never experienced such rudeness. And she was very rude to my mum which was worse.

No one said anything at the time as it would have been even more awkward but now my dad is making noises about a group holiday again.

I will go but feel we need to lay down some ground rules as in “we are not pandering to SILs every whim!”

What do you all think?

@mclover your DM is a legend!

@nettie434 they were very disappointed. My mum is more realistic and agreed ahe doesn’t think we should do a family holiday again. My dad is pushing it. My brother (SILa hubby) is the golden child in my dad eyes. He can do no wrong so me and my other brothers opinions are largely ignored.

Your brother is the problem. You're blaming her for his decisions. Start regarding him as a self-respecting adult, treat him accordingly and you might start to get somewhere.

Well it sounds to me that the only thing she "dictated" was meal time for her kids.

Everyone else didn't have to join in if it didn't suit-ie, noone had to "dance to her tune".

All the other activities happened whether she was there or not I presume?

I’m not saying I don’t like her. I’m saying she is very very different to me. I have never and would never comment on what she likes in a negative way.

OK....
But just a couple of seconds earlier, you said:

But if I am being truthful, we probably would never be friends . She is obsessed with her looks, very into Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc #loveyaface #blessed, #mysquad and other such stuff. Where as I can’t stand all that and think it’s fake as anything.

"My mum is more realistic and agreed ahe doesn’t think we should do a family holiday again. My dad is pushing "

Well then that's it, isn't it?

People can say no to your dad, can't they?

Or is a free holiday never to be refused?

I can relate OP, my SIL doesn't like any of us and we're very different people too! I've always made an effort to try to get on with her but it's wearing thin now after she's been so rude about my parents and said some awful things to my brother.

I think you might need to just accept she doesn't like you guys that much and holidays can be intense as you're together so much. She obviously has her own way of parenting too, which she's entitled to, but doesn't need to be dictated to the whole family. I'd resist that if you go again, let her do her thing but politely decline if it doesn't work for you. Show willing a few times though so she can't grumble about 'being ignored/left out'. Plan things and invite her but expect her not to come and let her do her own thing. I think it's all about you making enough effort so she can't say you've been unreasonable, but also not doing everything her way.

Can you have a chat with her and brother and ask an open question like "last holiday I felt like our routines didn't always match up, is there anything we could do differently this time to make it easier for you guys?" - you never know what you might get out of that.

I'm surprised your dad wants to do it again, knowing your mum was hurt about it.

Why dont they do separate holidays one with you and one with your brother? Or include all your siblings?

If you go I would treat it as just being you by yourselves and prep your kids that they wont be spending any time with their cousins. Or speak to her first, not about everything just 'I was surprised you agreed to it as you didnt seem to enjoy it much last time...what shall I tell the kids about spending time with their cousins as they didnt see much of them last time and I dont want them to be disappointed and I'd like to warn them if we're not going to be doing any activities together in the daytime'

OP, of course you are not being unreasonable to object to an antisocial fun-sponge putting a dampener on your lovely-sounding holiday and disrespecting your family and in particular your parents who funded the whole thing.
However, this is MN, and there are people on here who delight in arguing black is white, regardless of how good a case you put forward. You have wealthy parents and benefited from a lovely holiday in a far-flung destination, therefore you MUST be unreasonable and lacking in understanding and empathy for your SIL.

It sounds like it was a bit awkward but your follow up posts make me vote YABU.

For example [she] makes zero effort. We don’t live in the same city but my brother and I FaceTime regularly. She never ever appears in the picture or says hello... and she just sits on the couch on her phone in the background.

That's totally normal! It's your brother you are ringing to speak to. Who speaks on the phone to their in laws, unless they coincidentally are also friends? Does your brother ring up your DH regularly for a chat? I get on great with my BIL but when I ring my sister she doesn't pass the phone to him.

Your expectations of her are unrealistic imo.

However, this is MN, and there are people on here who delight in arguing black is white, regardless of how good a case you put forward.

The irony

just day to your dad - no I dont want to do a group holiday with everyone again...
for whatever reason she didnt want to be there (and Hawaii is not on my list of places to go to ) maybe she doesnt like group holidays at all ...

you cant make adults feel/do something just cos you think they 'should' if your parents were bothered they could have said something, why didnt you say - no eating then doesnt suit us..... we'll eat later...

everyone doesnt have to do everything the same time every day...... what makes your wants/ways better than hers- I'm sure shes well aware of your opinion of her 'fakery'

Just be a bit more honest with PIL say doesnt work for us.....dont want big family holiday again - unless your prepared to be more adult about things and speak up for yourself

Sorry OP but whilst you do sound nice, you and your family together sound overbearing.

You’ve taken offence to her not taking you up on babysitting and spas and walks??

You are quite blinded by your own view of your family so you can’t see why she may not want any of that just because you do.

If I go on a family holiday then I prefer only to spend part of the day together. I also would not want to be walking/spa-ing together, nor would I leave my kids - IF I did not have a close relationship with my in-laws.

SIL certainly should not have been rude but it sounds like she was there under duress. And unfortunately if you take the ‘but my family is so lovely’ line then you’re never going to understand this even a tiny bit.

Leave your SIL alone. That poor woman.

All of your complaints related to her not doing what you wanted her to do. That's her controlling only her own boundaries, as you attempted to actually control her.

I'll bet that dinner times thing was her saying "sure, we'll eat with you but would need to be early, for the kids."

If she was so controlling of your brother, she wouldn't have gone on the nightmarish holiday she never wanted to go on, would she?

Stop trying to control her. She doesn't like you because you overtly don't like her - and this, along with the controlling behaviour, is precisely why she avoids you.

I would be your SIL in this scenario.

When I had an 18 month old and a 5 year old holidays (anywhere, with anyone) were a bit hellish. I still had PND/Anxiety (so tried to control stuff), DD (18month) was a nightmare sleeper if her routine was off) and holidays were not even just "Same Shit. Different Place" but "Same Shit, Routines fucked, Difference Place". Hated them.

Also, my DC used to really play up after just a short time of playing with their cousins. Yes mine and DH's early-parenting style was "controlled" - as in we reinforced manners, considerate behaviour, sharing etc. My sister's parenting was relaxed -especially on holidays - so to us and our DC it was lacking in any control/parenting input and our DCs ultimately found it stressful when they were young.

Oh and I hate the heat. So I would not have wanted to leave the hotel room during the day.

Add to that how horrible it is if you think everyone is muttering/bitching about you.

I feel very sorry for your SIL.

I think the only thing that would really bug me about that would be the cousins not socialising and the mealtimes.

So I'd say "ok let's go but mealtimes are 7pm so we can all talk about our day" (was that the PP with the cool mum? such a good idea) and perhaps we can arrange a couple of "cousins days" where the children decide what they want to do?

And see what happens. I love my SILs dearly but I can't really imagine a Spa day with them (well maybe one of them) and being with them 24/7 would lead to bloodshed.

why do you not just all do your own thing and just meet up now and again for lunch, dinner etc

Ok - you’re not going to like my post but this is AIBU.,...Face it - her friends know her better than you and your mum does, and spa treatment etc are the kind of things you do with people who know you. I am another who goes away on holiday to get away from everyone, not take the buggers with me and yes I would have turned Hawaii down, it wouldn’t have been my idea of fun.
And who was paying for all the extras? If she is ‘in control’ of the money is there a reason you don’t know about? When you have been dragged into debt by a partner who’s answer to everything is ‘it’ll be alright’ and you are the one left to drag you out before he drags you under.......having other people constantly asking for you to spend money you don’t have is very stressful.
And the kids not playing together? Well she might not like the way how your kids play - brutality honest but if yours are loud and raucous maybe she doesn’t want two hyped up children to deal with.....
Just because you think it’s a great idea not everyone else does. To see me you wouldn’t think it but I am very introverted and would have felt under immense pressure on that holiday.
And lastly are you the kind of family that jumps up at the first sound of entertainment - first up for karaoke? Games round the pool? Shout out your drinks order to the person going to the bar? Different people have different expectations of holidays- and with annual leave being a precious commodity two weeks with people who holiday differently from you is miserable - even in paradise.

Agree Callme, if you accept the gift of a holiday then surely it is polite to be gracious and at least find some compromises, to insist on eating at 5pm is ridiculous. I’ve been away with ILs/family and things are done differently, I respect other people’s choices and do my best to fit in, or politely decline the invitation. Even with my own DPs I accept that we do things differently (as do they when they visit us).

Just make it clear to your Dad that a family holiday isn’t going to work.

Foslady but at least you say that you would turn the invitation down ... there is no point going on a holiday and then insisting things are done your way.

Quite a few members of my family are currently on a skiing holiday, I don’t ski so I decided not to go. There would be no point me going and then being miserable or hoping people missed out on their skiing so I wasn’t bored .

I think people have got muddled about the ages. OP said the DCs were 3.5 and almost 7 at the time of the last holiday. Not now. So there was no 18 month old on the holiday.

At ages 3-6 lots of people would want to do 'children's tea time' at 5pm and get them to bed at their normal time. The question then is whether you can arrange a later adult's dinner time, comfortaby after DCs bed time, so probably 8pm not 7pm, in the same house where the younger DC are sleeping.

@shakeituntilyoumakeit interesting that the OP seems to have ignored your post. Just wanted to say though that I get it - the bit about the effort of being with people all the time. OP is clearly not willing to listen to a POV which doesn't support her though.

There's a big holiday being discussed with my in-laws at present for 2021. Reading this thread is just making me more convinced it's the worst idea ever! My MIL is very controlling and my BIL (golden boy) and SIL will ignore her - which will lead to friction - and I would probably end up in the role of the SIL here - I wouldn't be being rude - I'd be trying to hang on to my sanity.

...My point being that fitting in with your nieces / nephews needs would have required some careful planning, possibly compromise on the part of everyone else, agreeing to eat at 8pm, in the house they were sleeping in. Presumably all fine with you and family OP, as you were so keen for everyone to spend time together.

This is precisely what I've done and expected when holidaying with young DCs and it has worked out well. (It is easy for childless adults to think 'let's eat at 7pm' or 'let's eat out tonight' without thinking through the implications for young children and thair parents. Not very inclusive of them but easily done).

Family/group holidays can be fraught. From SIL’s perspective, she is the only non blood relative there and probably feels a bit outnumbered. You are all having the kind of holiday you would have had as children (albeit in a much swaggier locale!!) but you don’t know what sort of holidaying was modelled to her as a child. Not all families do the beach/zoo/museum side of things but take a more chilled approach (or do less, for whatever reason). That said, she does sound like hard work as the mn saying goes!

If I was your mum I’d be tempted to say to your bro, look, SIL seemed really unhappy last time, shall we go without you this time? And see what he says.

You may also find it’s a completely different story this time round. 5 and 7 year olds are MUCH harder to control than toddlers - if they wanna hang out, they probably will. SIL will also have a far less hard line stance on bedtimes, sugar and screen time now - parenting styles tend to be more polarised in the toddler years than the school years, by which point people have usually mellowed somewhat!

@Ragwort.......maybe she didn’t have the option of turning it down. Can you imagine the OP’s post then - my SIL is refusing to let my DB and my Dniece/Dnephew com on holiday with us as she doesn’t want to go?