To not give our 10 year old his Christmas presents?

[stardust22]

Our 10 year old is threatening to tell his 6 year old Sister that Father Christmas isn't real.

He is trying to use this information to black mail us. When he is given consequences he will say either cancel my consequences or I'll tell her the truth about Christmas.

We have said we won't put up with his behaviour & if he did tell her he would not receive any Christmas presents.

He is & always has been rude & aggressive. I don't know how much information to give as this has been on going since he was 4 years old.

My husband & I have discussed not giving Christmas presents to him previously but I have always said no way.

This year I am unsure..... I know it would cause massive upset & ruin our Christmas but he acts so entitled & really only cares about himself.
I don't think it will change his behaviour as nothing we have ever done has, we are just at a loss.

Respect has to be earned, not demanded.

No, I don’t have to earn my child’s respect. I make the rules, the child is expected to follow them. In return the child has my love and protection and is provided for. None of this “respect is a two-way street” stuff in my house, thanks!

@churchandstate good luck in 10 years time with that shite attitude

GiveHerHellFromUs

😂 I think we’ll be fine. My child knows who is in charge in my home.

jimmyhill the ten year old is exactly replicating the control tactics his parents use, and which you are advocating.

Before all else children learn by example.

"Do as I wish otherwise I'll punish you" is the way the parents control the child and the child is copying exactly the same technique.

Do as I wish otherwise I'll withhold your Christmas presents.
Do as I wish otherwise I'll tell my sister that Father Christmas isn't real.

Which one is blackmail?

Making parenting a power struggle with ever escalating threats is destined to fail in the medium to long term.

This child's parents have pathologised and over reacted to normal behaviour since he was three and been escalating consequences, especially the duration of consequences to the point at which they become completely meaningless as ways to teach appropriate behaviour. They've modelled relationships as operating through blackmail and external reward and punishment since the child was 3.

Outside help is needed to reset the dynamic in this family, but the ten year old is only learning by example. Reward and punishment systems are supplimental and short term measures, learning by example is vastly more powerful.

@churchandstate yep for now. What happens when they're a teenager who rebels? Or a young adult who you're still trying to control?

I also think the 'I'll tell DSIS about Santa' is being blown out of proportion. You're giving it unnecessary weight. Lots of DCs find out the truth about Santa from an older sibling. But OP is trying to micro-manage her DS' behaviour and her DD's experience of life.

GiveHerHellFromUs

What do you mean ‘when’? You mean ‘if’ surely? I have no intention of ‘controlling’ my child past the necessary point of having brought them up properly, which is my job. Thanks for your input.

@churchandstate if you're bringing them up to believe what they are told by their 'superiors' is the be all and end all then there will come a time when they will either use that approach themselves to become a knob, or will always see themselves as inferior and allow people to walk all over them.

The issue is you will decide when you've had enough 'control' - you won't allow them to make that decision with you.

You can't suddenly switch from being a child with no say in anything to a fully functioning adult.

GiveHerHellFromUs

No, I won’t allow my child to make my parenting decisions with me. That doesn’t mean - for a moment - that they will have no say in anything. You are very confused.

@churchandstate and you're very naive. As you were.

GiveHerHellFromUs

🙄

Read this: www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Toddlerdom-Keeping-twelve-year-olds/dp/0091816246/ref=sr_1_1?crid=10SAQEE41D1E8&keywords=beyond+toddlerdom&sprefix=beyond+toddler%2Caps%2C137&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1577122088&sr=8-1
Call his bluff. If he does spill the beans to little sister, she probably won't believe him, and if she does, she's ready to know the truth anyway. You need to stop this behaviour now! Don't despair, it can be done. YOU are in charge and he will feel more security if he knows that. Good luck!

Interesting vid AuntieElle
Thx

I am not judging because I have had some serious issues with my now grown up sons. But it sounds like your son doesn’t feel loved or valued. I know how difficult it is to show love and affection to a child with behaviour issues but that’s what you need to do. Spend some time with him without your daughter and really talk to him and ask him why he’s unhappy. Tell him that you love him.

I’ve read some posts. He sounds very frustrated and others have eluded to that you sound quite controlling and I think he feels very restricted compared to his friends at a time when kids of this age become very aware of their environment and what friends are allowed to do. The only thing he can do to vent his frustration is control what he can control. I think you need to say to him that you understand his frustration and that he is growing up. If he starts to show he can be nicer then this will be rewarded with more freedom and choices rather than punish bad behaviour. My kids love fortnite. Ok it’s not an ideal game but I actually think it’s good for teamwork, strategy and communication - not all bad. Let him play. You are making him feel like a baby compared to his friends and he’s angry about that. Maybe the age gap of your children isn’t helping either, that you are still in toddler zone- he is growing up but you may be stifling his development by being so restrictive.

I would keep the peace for now so that Christmas isn't spoilt for everyone. And tell him that's the only reason you are doing this but in the New Year there are going to be changes.

Then, once he has no more means to blackmail you - ask to see a child psychologist with him or family counsellor, and find out what is causing this behaviour. If there's nothing and it's just his personality then maybe the time has come to get "tough" - a list of rules and consequences if he breaks them. No treats unless earned by good behaviour (and that means no TV time, no computer games, etc). Maybe talk to the school and ask their help.

If you're having trouble with him at 10 I dread to think what he'll be like in a few years time!

Consequences should be only immediate and only affect him.If you threaten and dont follow through his behaviour will get worse.Also do you think you have got into the habit of only telling him off and not telling him when he is being good? I did this with mine and when someone suggested this it had a massive difference to her behaviour.Just a " thankyou for....whatever they have done well". Wow! Look what you have done,thats great!!! Spend time just with him.Sorry if you already do this! Talk to him and see if there is anything worrying/upsetting him.

@stardust22 hey. I hope you’re ok. I have 2 autistic boys and a daughter who is mid diagnosis. One of my boys behaves very similarly to how you describe your DS. He is 18 now so have sort of learned how to deal with this. I don’t mention the autism in a way that’s intended to suggest this could explain your DS’s modus operandi, just an explanation of why my particular DS is like he is. The other son is completely different but they do share some similar traits. I’ve found that somewhere underneath these behaviours is a need to control the world around them and unfortunately those efforts can be clumsy and at times extremely hurtful and hard to bear for the remaining family members. This can compound the problem as we then remove privileges and so and throwing the “in need of control” child on a raft without a paddle and they react badly - escalating the behaviour into scenarios that can be horrendous for all concerned. Nobody wins as you’ve described here if you were to cancel their Xmas. I have once cancelled my son’s birthday whilst adhering to the script of “if you can’t respect me and the rules of this home then you will be warned and if you fail to heed that warning I will be consistent in doling out the consequences”. It’s good parenting advice in a way but it doesn’t work with these kinds of children. I regret it. What I have found works better is to take half an hour out of my day to talk and be with them. Sometimes it’s just to connect with them and sometimes it ends up being time to hear about niggles it worries they have buried deep. It’s important in our house to just listen because if their worry is something petty (it often is) it is not helpful for me to show that and much more helpful to take their worry seriously and work with them to find solutions so they feel okay again. A lot of the stuff in our house is sibling issues but with my children those minor familial problems can quickly turn into big problems so we now tackle them earnestly without saying things like “oh just ignore her when she does that” or “don’t worry he doesn’t mean it”. I would personally recommend some time to just talk with your son, without judgment and with the intention of hearing what’s bothering him and helping him find his own solutions. Best of luck.

Can I suggest that you read up about Pathological Demand Avoidance? Not because your son necessarily fits it, but children with PDA have a very strong and real need to be in control rooted in anxiety. So, reading about how to parent a child with PDA might give you some ideas on how to tackle his behaviour that are counter to the normal parent=control. I wonder if he might respond better and it might be less stressful for all of you.

I don’t think it’s cruel to use Christmas as a punishment.
Some children don’t get any presents on Xmas day because their parents can’t afford any.
So for a child acting spoilt and rude no I don’t think it’s cruel to cancel their Christmas. Don’t do it for all your children though, just him.

I don’t think you should punish him for telling his sister- more the fact he is trying to blackmail you.

Explain to him on Xmas day after he’s had time to think about his behaviour that yes, Santa isn’t real and you’re so disappointed about his behaviour if he wants his presents he needs to do x y z- set by you.

Have you considered that your son may have asd/adhd/or odd (autism spectrum disorder/attention deficit hyperactivity disorder /oppositional deviant disorder). Autistic people often 'seem' self centred and lack social skills (not ALL people with asd are like this , don't go jumping on me people if u have it , that's why it's a 'spectrum ' disorder ...i.e. it's on a spectrum of difficulty/ severity ). ADHD kids are often hyperactive/impulsive but asd kids could be too. Oppositional defiant disorder often is a difficulty that comes with adhd ... it's basically a severe behaviour problem and a problem with authority figures....and playing up for them...

‘it sounds like your son doesn’t feel loved or valued’

So what? Let him continue to blackmail and act awfully?

What lesson is this teaching our children?

If he started nursery (which was the beginning of the bad behaviour) when you were expecting his sister, maybe it’s all connected and although he loves her, he also resents her — hence the meanness.

The suggestion about getting him to help create some santa magic with reindeer footprints is a good one.

There is quite a bit written on ‘demand avoidance’ which is a strand of autism. Children may be (or may not) well behaved in one setting and impossible in others. It’s to do with needing total control and when they expect to control something, and cannot, they can get irrationally aggressive. It might be worth googling and speaking to your GP and/or the SENCO at your school. The senco should be able to recognise that the symptoms may not manifest at school.

Good luck (and don’t take away the presents that will increase resentment and ruin everyone’s Christmas!)

I just wanted to say, could you have a little chat with your dd about St. Nicolas who lived a long time ago and brought presents to all the good boys and girls. Over the years his name changed to Santa Claus. Children all around the world believe in St. Nicolas because he was a real person. So if anybody, anybody at all, tried telling her that he is not real, well, that just is not true.
You could back this up with google pictures of St. Nicolas. See, he has a white beard. Look what funny clothes he used to wear....I bet he is pleased he has a nice warm red suit now....
You get the idea.

To everyone mentioning autism, yes autistic children can have meltdowns and say some wild stuff during them. But not this.