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To agree with JK Rowling?

999 replies

StraightenUpAndFryRight · 20/12/2019 09:22

mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

‘Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill’

OP posts:
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6
RiddleyW · 20/12/2019 11:26

My reply was to your previous post, Riddley. Yes, that was the context, but I think the judge's comments went beyond "this is not protected" to "this is not a legitimate view".

Yes, and personally I don't like what he says or agree with him there but it's really important to understand that that statement is not forming any kind of law about what she could or could not say. It's an obiter statement about the background to her beliefs.

mrscampbellblackagain · 20/12/2019 11:29

I totally agree with JK Rowling - saw the dreadful Jameela Jamil had jumped into criticise her.

bibliomania · 20/12/2019 11:30

I was going to say it was obiter dicta as well. But it's an unhelpful framing. I hope it will be challenged.

Sceptre86 · 20/12/2019 11:31

I agree

ArranUpsideDown · 20/12/2019 11:32

Stop using intersex conditions

For more on why people with DSDs (aka intersex) want others to stop using them as point scoring rhetorical devices in these discussions:

Here’s the thing…the judge goes out of his way to talk about the need for dignity for trans people. It’s important, we’re told, that we all pretend that the categories of male and female are nebulous and unimportant. That the feeling in someone’s head should override reality for the rest of us...The vehicle used to achieve this is, as ever, DSDs.

Where’s the dignity for people with DSDs in all of this, as our complex and often emotionally difficult medical conditions are trotted out and prodded by the ignorant, discussed with morbid fascination by people who have no idea about the reality of them? Who gives a shit about what is being done to us?

We mustn’t discuss or acknowledge the sex of trans people, because to do so would “out” them...Meanwhile, he thought nothing, as do so many people in this debate, of declaring that people with DSDs shouldn’t be considered male or female at all. Where does this end? To class us as “other” is to out us.

The only way we can counter this harmful narrative, is to out ourselves anyway. I have to write a blog, sit in front of strangers and describe my genitals, fertility status and medical history, just to be able to say “what trans activists say about us isn’t true. It’s unkind, unscientific and harmful”. Where’s the dignity in that?...Where’s the outrage that a group of actually vulnerable people, just getting on with their lives, wanting to blend in and not be paraded for someone else’s party, are being mis-sexed?

There is no dignity, no compassion. We’re politicised and used as a footnote in someone else’s story. We’re prevented from being our own spokespeople. No one hears us. No one cares.

mrkhvoice.com/index.php/2019/12/18/what-is-dignity/

chillykiwi · 20/12/2019 11:33

I agree with what JK Rowling has said but I don't know enough about the court case to know if what the woman originally said is reasonable or not.

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 20/12/2019 11:33

I would love to publicly make my beliefs clear on this and stand with Maya, except I genuinely know I'd be fired too. At some point we all need to find the courage to be un-stealth.

I work in a large not-for-profit organisation where this is going to become an issue. I'm not gonna be silenced. I will have my say. I'm not subscribing to all this bollocks. And, if they fire me then ... so be it: I walk with my principles in tact.

I do recognise, however, that I'm at the stage of life/career where I can do this. I understand that it's not possible for everyone. But I can. And I bloody well will.

NoineNoine · 20/12/2019 11:34

I agree with her, so glad someone so influential has spoken up! I hate to see the hate she's getting, but she can take it - if women with her wealth and privilege don't speak up for us, who will?

astralweaks · 20/12/2019 11:34

It’s the first time ever I have found myself in agreement with JK Rowling. Not a fan of the Harry Potter industry but by God, she is right on this.
A BIG well done to her for speaking the truth.Flowers

Baguetteaboutit · 20/12/2019 11:35

Yes, of course she is right.

PurpleHoodie · 20/12/2019 11:35

Joanne Flowers

astralweaks · 20/12/2019 11:35

She can cope with the “hate” of the vocal minority, I feel sure.

Greenglassteacup · 20/12/2019 11:36

I completely agree. Misogyny has gone mad in a terrifying Margaret Atwood style.

OverByYer · 20/12/2019 11:36

So grateful to JK, I can’t publicly support Maya or any GC groups in RL or I would lose my job.

ArranUpsideDown · 20/12/2019 11:38

She can cope with the “hate” of the vocal minority, I feel sure.

It seems to be turning into a case study of social media algorithmic manipulation. She's had tens of thousands of likes removed from her original tweet and both 'top' and 'latest' for her name have 'deboosted' supportive comments.

It's fascinating.

merrymouse · 20/12/2019 11:39

imo para 43 shows that the judge doesn't understand the scientist or their study. He conflates DSDs with transgender; he confuses sex with gender and he uses the existence of DSDs to extrapolate that means sex isn't binary but that isn't what the existence of DSDs means.

It's really unclear how this is relevant to the judgement. The judge talks about an 'absolutist' view of sex, but the only ways that anyone can mitigate the consequences of sex are through surgery or medication, neither of which are universally available.

PurpleHoodie · 20/12/2019 11:40

And by the way.

I'd like to say how lovely it is that a female author is able to be openly recognised, and acknowledged for her talent (former English Lit. student)

FloralBunting · 20/12/2019 11:41

It would be good if people could stop lying/passing on inaccurate hearsay about what Maya did. She discussed a law change on Twitter, specifically related to the impact that change would have on women. She did not harrass anyone, she has said she will use people's preferred pronouns through politeness, and the judgement was passed down because she was simply insistent that being able to acknowledge sex is important if discussing sex based rights.

By all means disagree, if you're minded to, but stopping fibbing.

PurpleHoodie · 20/12/2019 11:42

Arran

"It seems to be turning into a case study of social media algorithmic manipulation. She's had tens of thousands of likes removed from her original tweet and both 'top' and 'latest' for her name have 'deboosted' supportive comments.

It's fascinating."

The men are upset. Diddums.

PurpleHoodie · 20/12/2019 11:42

Yes, Floral!

Baguetteaboutit · 20/12/2019 11:43

She's had tens of thousands of likes removed from her original tweet and both 'top' and 'latest' for her name have 'deboosted' supportive comments.

Fucking hell. The dishonest bastards.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 20/12/2019 11:45

I agree.

The vitriol being spewed at her on Twitter is disgusting.

TheHoneyBadger · 20/12/2019 11:46

I’m hoping millions reading the comments and repeated demands for jk to “suck my female dick” are achieving peak trans instantaneously.

When you give them enough rope...

Boireannachlaidir · 20/12/2019 11:50

Thanks @ScrimshawTheSecond tbh I'm just trying to pick my way through the facts too and I'm not sure how the Slack message board even came up. I thought it was just about her Twitter comments.

Will read the judgement you posted. I'm also following this on the FWR board as it really helps my understanding of the issue.

Childrenofthestones · 20/12/2019 11:52

This has been waiting for somebody really big in the public eye, with cahoonies and fuck you money in the bank.
A couple of times people have popped their head over the parapet before the trans lobby were unleashed upon them and they unfortunately backed away.
I am very hopeful JKR will be the woman who breaks the mold.
Most people don't even understand what it's about so a very high profile person like her getting involved will only help. Assuming the lies of some of them don't get to them first.