To agree with JK Rowling?

[StraightenUpAndFryRight]

mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

‘Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill’

No tell they really haven’t. In fact accurate analysis of trans murder rates show that transing actually reduces the likelihood a man will be murdered. That’s before you adjust for the fact many transwomen are murdered while working as sex workers and we know women are murdered just as frequently when forced to work as sex workers. The stats also show that transwomen are much more likely to be murderers than be murdered. So nope you are spouting fake news. Even if it were true though why would we need a special word for men who kill transwomen? Why is that somehow worse than men who kill women? Or men who kill men? What’s wrong with calling a murderer a murderer?

TERF is just a nasty fucking word to silence women. It’s the new ‘burn witch burn’ term to shut us down. And it’s a stupid fucking term at that- radical feminists include transmen by recognising they are biological women and require the same protections the rest of us women do. It’s biological fact that exclude transwomen from womenhood, men can not be women is a biological fact not some position held by feminists.

Yes - at the risk of someone misinterpreting them as my opinions in order to discredit my arguments, or leaping to the conclusion that I am saying all these things are offensive in the same way and to the same degree - there are numerous examples.

No there are not 'numerous examples. None of those examples involve actively lying in order not to offend. All those examples involve opinions that you can not voice, not facts. You yourself said that you don't believe humans can change sex but that you wouldn't say that because it would upset people. You are willing to lie in order not to offend. Some people are not willing to partake in this lie, but are being forced to.

To give another example.

It would be homophobic to say that two men having sex is 'disgusting' or 'wrong' or 'sinful'.

It would not be homophobic to say that two men cannot make a baby on their own without a woman in the mix, it's fact.

Saying men can't be women is fact.

" it is still not possible to change sex, only one sex can give birth"
I'm afraid that's not true. We no longer have facts, we have stated beliefs held by a vocal minority who seem to hold all the cards. And now, the stated belief we must all adhere to is that trans women are women. Unless it suits them to be trans women. Then they're trans woman. Hth.

Like I always say, when you've identified the third type of chromosome possible in humans or a mechanism for altering which chromosomes a given person has then let me know. Until then, stop demanding that I tell lies.

It wasn't intended to be snippy, Even (assuming it's my post you mean). I tend to overuse inverted commas when I'm talking about views I don't agree with, which is probably a subconscious attempt to disassociate myself from them, but I appreciate the impression they gave was snippy when I re-read, so apologies for that.

Apology accepted.

Nuns is it possible to change sex?

I've always liked her, and even more so now.

The 'at work' bit is irrelevant, unless the person works for a company that has no social media policy, which would be very unusual

It’s the first I’ve heard that the decision was made based on breach of company social media policy.

Also the “at work” bit probably isn’t ”irrelevant” as most social media policies have as one of their criteria the extent of the link between the posting at work, eg it’s usually worse if your profile specifies your place of work

All those examples involve opinions that you can not voice, not facts

You distinguish between fact and opinion where you don't share the opinions quoted in the examples - but people who have those opinions, do see it as a fact that X race is superior to Y race - and would probably come up with what they believe to be science to prove it. Others would see it as a fact that two women can't have sex because no penis is involved. Almost anything can be described as factual or non-factual depending on what you want to believe.

(I reiterate that the above examples don't reflect any views I hold personally).

Stealth - I answered that question upthread.

OK thanks, not sure I'll be able to find it.

Almost anything can be described as factual or non-factual depending on what you want to believe
Omg would you just look at yourself and what you're saying, please.

My ten year old had homework recently which was to read a passage and pick out which statements were facts and which were opinions.

Stealth - I said "No, I don't personally believe it's literally possible to change sex. But I will defend others' right to believe that, and to be treated with appropriate respect and courtesy."

but people who have those opinions, do see it as a fact that X race is superior to Y race - and would probably come up with what they believe to be science to prove it.

So you are comparing a belief that one race is superior to another with the belief that humans cannot change sex?

Do you believe that humans can change sex? Because upthread you said you didnt. Why don't you?

Until then, stop demanding that I tell lies.

Being forced to lie shouldn’t be law.

If I found myself arguing that reality doesn't exist I'd be pretty embarrassed. I suspect others will be too a few years from now.

Thank you nun. So the disagreement then really is on whether it's OK to require employees to state lies as truth

So tired of the industrial scale gaslighting.

You can force women to pretend that men are women, through threats, but you can't actually get into our heads and fix our 'wrongfacts'.

We'll still know that humans can't change sex.

@VMisaMarshmallow, you misunderstood me. What I was trying to say, probably messily is that this whole thing is about misogyny. The extreme trans lobby hate women and will go for women with venom and have names and death threats for women who challenge their attempts to confuse sex and gender.

However, men will actually kill them and they have no special names and venom almost as though their hate for women is stronger than for the group who are more likely to actually harm them. I was not saying that transwomen are attacked more than women, I just observed that the hate for women who dare disagree is stronger than for men who cause genuine harm. This is next level misogyny at play.

Thanks @myohmywhatawonderfulday it’s so straight forward I assumed I’d missed something!

"No, I don't personally believe it's literally possible to change sex. But I will defend others' right to believe that, and to be treated with appropriate respect and courtesy."

So you would defend another's right to believe that one race is superior to another? And would back peoples right to assert that in public and make policy based on that belief? Because that is what is happening with people who believe that humans can change sex. They want to change policy and law based that belief.

My ten year old had homework recently which was to read a passage and pick out which statements were facts and which were opinions.

The point I'm making is that that piece of homework would look different in 1950s Britain, or 1930s Germany, or the 1960s Chinese Republic, or present day North Korea.

I understand what nuns is saying. I accept that people can’t just say what they want at work/on social media but the restrictions placed on this have the best reasonable and proportionate. Saying humans can’t change sex is not transphobic - it is true. I disagree with EJ Tayler’s analysis of this re a GRC not being a “legal fiction”.

However the manner of expressing it might be transphobic depending on how it is expressed and to whom.

I think it’s disproportionate and unreasonable to restrain people from stating people can’t change sex, but probably not unreasonable to ask them not to refer to trans women as “men in dresses” and other such terminology.