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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To agree with JK Rowling?

999 replies

StraightenUpAndFryRight · 20/12/2019 09:22

mobile.twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

‘Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill’

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
HandsOffMyRights · 20/12/2019 13:08

So tell us, you 30 or so voters, why OP is BU?

GeordieTerf · 20/12/2019 13:09

The posts that are lying about Maya (saying she targeted a trans person) are false and should be deleted. Please help me report them. Smile

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 20/12/2019 13:09

Ok so if you have a penis you're make, if you have a vagina you're female. So why do some people then get up in arms about post operative trans people, ie if a man has had his penis surgically removed (or whatever they do-I'm not sure on the specifics) - they don't have a penis so what are they?

Lifeinthelastlane · 20/12/2019 13:10

I think the reporting of the case has been oversimplified.
In essence, the tribunal said that because the transperson concerned had a Gender Recognition Certificate, it was wrong of Maya to claim that she wasn't a she. The legal position was that she was a she
Where did you read this? I thought the person who complained was Gregor Murray, who is trans but definitely not a woman - they are non-binary. Which is not a situation that can lead to a GRC anyway.

lovepickledlimes · 20/12/2019 13:11

Biologically they are still a man though socially should be treated as a woman.

koshkat · 20/12/2019 13:11

They are male obviously. In the same way that a man who has his arm amputated is still male. Lopping bits off yourself does not change your sex - what a weird idea!

lovepickledlimes · 20/12/2019 13:11

@MyGhastIsFlabbered sorry hit post too soon

koshkat · 20/12/2019 13:11

Biologically they are still a man though socially should be treated as a woman.

Says who? And what does that even mean anyway?

HandsOffMyRights · 20/12/2019 13:11

Sorry X- post

So Maya's comments likened to homophobia?

Straight out of the MRA handbook.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 20/12/2019 13:12

I'm glad she had finally spoken up about this. I knew she would eventually.

But at the same time I am also slightly worried. We all know how unhinged trans rights activists can be and those comments on Twitter are utterly vile. I just hope nobody actually carries out any of their threats.

Datun · 20/12/2019 13:14

The only question should be, were the employers entitled to act when Maya was expressing a view that was contrary to their ethics?

Where does it say it was contrary to their ethics?

nauticant · 20/12/2019 13:14

In essence, the tribunal said that because the transperson concerned had a Gender Recognition Certificate, it was wrong of Maya to claim that she wasn't a she. The legal position was that she was a she

Yes, I think that's another post that misrepresents the facts.

I've got to say, if it's so clear as to why the Employment Tribunal decision was correct, why are some posts spreading so much misinformation?

Surbitonsam · 20/12/2019 13:15

I agree with JK.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 20/12/2019 13:15

How can you be offended or have hurt feelings about scientific facts? Confused

OvaHere · 20/12/2019 13:16

She's had tens of thousands of likes removed from her original tweet and both 'top' and 'latest' for her name have 'deboosted' supportive comments.

The flip side of this is I have long been questioning how many tweets get thousands of likes added to them by twitter?

A while back I spent a while looking at accounts with very few followers who manage to get tens of thousands of likes on a singular tweets that have a particular political bent. It makes very little sense.

Social media is very much weaponised by those that run it to project personal agendas and shape what is the 'acceptable' viewpoint.

Collectively we should all be more terrified than we are when we engage on these platforms and what it means for democracy and society.

astralweaks · 20/12/2019 13:17

Annasgirl

Wow - 6% of people on here think YABU !!! Who are they and why????

Who? God knows. Immature trolls?

Clymene · 20/12/2019 13:17

How can believing that someone can't physically change sex be against company values @Nunsnetting? Confused

PurpleHoodie · 20/12/2019 13:18

Mygast

MyGast

"Ok so if you have a penis you're make, if you have a vagina you're female. So why do some people then get up in arms about post operative trans people, ie if a man has had his penis surgically removed (or whatever they do-I'm not sure on the specifics) - they don't have a penis so what are they?"

A eunuch.

GCAcademic · 20/12/2019 13:18

I have voted YABU and I'm happy to explain why. For me, it isn't about whether Maya's views on biological sex are factually correct or incorrect. It's about the extent to which an employer is allowed to act when an employee behaves in a way that (they feel) is inconsistent with their values.

But should an employer be allowed to act in a way which requires their employees to disavow biological fact? Or not to speak out, in their private capacity, when their rights are under attack (re. GRA reform to allow self-ID)? The government was actually consulting the public on the issue at the time. This seems to me to be an enormous over-reach on an employers' part. Indeed, it suggests to me that their "values" are authoritarian and misogynistic.

astralweaks · 20/12/2019 13:19

It does not matter a jot how many tweets “they” have removed. Her view is absolutely correct. True women should not even have to defend this garbage from the lunatic fringe.

JK Rowling has soared in my estimation. And in that of many other, I imagine.

BirdandSparrow · 20/12/2019 13:20

if a man has had his penis surgically removed (or whatever they do-I'm not sure on the specifics) - they don't have a penis so what are they? A man without a penis. Same as if I have a double mastectomy and a hysterectomy I am a woman without breasts or uterus.
Why is this difficult to understand?

PurpleHoodie · 20/12/2019 13:20

GCA

Indeed. Let us not forget "Sex" is a Protected Characteristic in UK law.

lovepickledlimes · 20/12/2019 13:21

@koshkat so out of politness I would use their female name, female pronouns, have no issues them using female toilets or changing rooms. Things such as army and prisons would be a bit tricky and depened on the transitioning stage they are in, their own personal safety but also safety of other people around them so it's not as clear cut. But in 99% of cases just treat them as if they were female. Now if it was for sports competition where they would have an advantage or there was a medical reason then biology should come before what they identify as.

astralweaks · 20/12/2019 13:22

Imagine removing tweets, though! Hilarious. Doing so, however, only serves to show that the HUGE majority are in favour of Rowling’s view.

OddBoots · 20/12/2019 13:24

Where should the line be drawn? If someone had a sincerely-held view that was considered homophobic and therefore offensive, for example, and then expressed it on social media, should their employer be forced to let it stand and take no action, on the grounds of freedom of speech?

You might equally ask if a Christian employer ought to be allowed to take action against an employee who refused to agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour of all?

Is any employer allowed to put an ideology above logic and science?