Tony Blair keep your nose out

[billysboy]

When will this odious individual just clear off

I thought he was supposed to be sorting out the middle east ?

He thinks we have forgotten his illegal war , selling our gold , creating millions of jobs and then giving them all away , his little twist on the Good Friday Agreement allowing immunity for IRA bombers, his millions of pounds and multiple homes , I could go on

I would love him to just Feck off and stay in oblivion !

unreasonable ?

It’s become very fashionable to demonise him. I just remember how it felt as if a boil had been lanced in 1997 after 18 years of Tory rule. It was blissful and I’ll always be grateful to him. And he’s definitely talking sense now.

Jonathan Pie is a bandwagon jumping bore, who isn't as funny as he thinks he is.

He’s a satirist so he’s obviously going to work with whatever’s current. I think he’s very funny.

He's an unctious creep, but he's right. If you want to hear a judgement from someone who isn't a war criminal, try Jonathan Freedland, writing for The Guardian:

Labour’s “radical” manifesto of 2019 achieved precisely nothing. Not one proposal in it will be implemented, not one pound in it will be spent. It is worthless. And if judged not by the academic standard of “expanding the discourse”, but by the hard, practical measure of improving actual people’s actual lives, those hate figures of Corbynism — Tony Blair and Gordon Brown — achieved more in four hours than Corbyn achieved in four years. Why? Because they did what it took to win power.

That’s what a political party is for. It’s not a hobby; it’s not a pressure group that exists to open the Overton window a little wider; it’s not an association for making friends or hosting stimulating conversations and seminars; it’s not “a 30-year project”. Its purpose is to win and exercise power in the here and now. It is either a plausible vehicle for government or it is nothing.

SpoonBlender
What a weasel Freedland is...compare and contrast the article you have quoted to the one he wrote 3 weeks prior to it, where he considered the possibility of Labour winning a minority government. Funnily enough, no slating of Corbyn/Corbynism in that article and rather a different outlook on the manifesto:

Perhaps Labour’s manifesto can cancel out those concerns, its promises so arresting that it will sweep away wavering voters’ doubts. It’s clear the already-converted love it, even if some might find Corbyn’s talk of a wholesale restructuring of society alarming. The proposals in it, including the major renationalisations, poll well.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/22/labour-majority-corbyn-downing-street

In response to Freedland's more recent comments about the manifesto achieving nothing, I'm sure Labour's election campaign (including manifesto) will have contributed to a greater focus on shortfalls in funding and resources for the NHS and public services and as a result, there will be greater scrutiny of the Tory government's ability to deliver its public services promises.

I think Corbyns manifesto could promise what it liked as he stood no chance of getting in

However it is the fact that all these people such as Blair , Heseltine , Major et al feel it is their right to wade back in

If Blair feels so strongly about social injustice and the health of the country why does he not donate some of his fortune to the NHS or a charity ?

Freedland was spot on. The self indulgence of corbyn and his supporters is breathtaking.

I just remember how it felt as if a boil had been lanced in 1997 after 18 years of Tory rule.

So do I. And then I remember how everything carried on being Tory-led. His domestic policies gave with one hand and took away with the other, contributed to the complete destruction of civic life and attitudes in Britain, directly led to the rise in propaganda and acceptance of lies and dishonesty that gave us first Cameron and now Johnson. That's what right wing individualism, the destruction of socially-minded attitudes and the abandonment of socially minded people does.

However op, you are VVU to be criticising the results of the GFA.

And all those wittering mindlessly about Corbyn and the 'indulgence' of more social leanings can just sit back and watch the fun over the next few years as what's left of the country tears itself to pieces. I could be wrong. Perhaps Johnson will show that he lunged for power for a purpose other than his own ego. But I doubt it. Certainly empty mouthings about 'let healing begin' ain't going to cut it.

Whatever anyone thinks of Blair, he's right. The Labour party lost seats in its traditional heartlands so it needs to win back those voters, nevermind persuade those who aren't dyed in the wool Labour supporters. Momentum has a lot to answer for imo. I voted Labour for tactical reasons, but I wouldn't have otherwise.

why does he not donate some of his fortune to the NHS or a charity?
Perhaps he does. You do realise some public figures like to keep their donations private?

wowfudge
Whatever anyone thinks of Blair, he's right. The Labour party lost seats in its traditional heartlands so it needs to win back those voters...

On the Peston programme last night, they presented some analysis based on work from John Burn-Murdoch which showed a decline in the number of Labour's working class voters which has been going on for years, well before Corbyn's leadership. This might not be an easy challenge.

I'm from a working class background. It was Blair that drove me away from Labour, to what then were the left-leaning Lib Dems and Greens, before they became totally vacuous popularity cases. I think that we've had centre right ideology for so long that it has become accepted as fact. The entire centre of British politics has shifted that way so that anything left of centre now looks like extreme left. Also the degradation of Britain over the years, socially and economically, has resulted in the old lower middle and working classes being squeezed out between those advantaged by birth and the supported underclasses, along with their values in favour of those of consumerism. It all means that no one has a chance now of figuring out which way is up, down, left or right. Chuck in modern electronic data manipulation, and we are in trouble.

I never said it would be easy - clearly the Labour Party's current leadership and manifesto held no sway for lots of people. Unless they do something significant to broaden their appeal those seats lost won't be just an anomaly of the 2019 election. I believe there were significant numbers if voters who liked Tony Blair's New Labour and have been turned off Labour by the return to 1970s socialism too.

Oh, and unappealing leaders.

The way you're couching your criticisms is really odd OP.

If you just said I'm not interested in Tony Blair's view because of X thing he did, that in itself is reasonable enough. It might make you wrong, like your views on the GFA, but at least there's a logic to it. The things you're coming out with, not so much.

Keep his nose out? He's a British citizen, Labour are the main opposition party in his home country and Corbyn currently the Leader of the Opposition. That makes it inherently his business just like it's all of ours. You can't be British and not be entitled to an opinion on the matter. And you haven't the foggiest idea what he does with his money, though I'd be surprised if he hasn't ever made any donations to charity.

And I'm not even a particular fan of Blair's. I think despite some of the undoubted good that was done on his watch, the bullshitting over Iraq had a devastating impact on public trust in leaders and we're seeing some of the consequences of that now. Nonetheless, this is still his business. The same is true of Heseltine, Major and everyone else whose silence you seem to feel entitled to.

I don't really understand this demoinsation of past pretty good leaders - writing as a Thatcher supporter.... she did masses of good for the country and Tony Blair despite being Labour was not to bad on several fronts as people have said although not as good as a Tory would have done.

however my dream ticket is a very far left Labour new leader so we get 10 years of Tory rule.

I don’t understand the demonisation of Blair - my family who were all struggling were massively better off under him, working families tax credits, changing bankruptcy laws which were v punitive pre Blair.

Blair could persuade people - so few politicians these days can persuade people to their POV.

We’d have had some engagement in iraq under most non Corbynite PMs...

Oh, and unappealing leaders.

And that sums up why we're in such trouble. Reason doesn't matter. Results don't matter. Empirical evidence doesn't matter. The only question is whether they "appeal". Blair was the start of that and Cameron the continuation. They're supposed to be running the country not auditioning for Love Island or some such reality shite.

They're supposed to be running the country not auditioning for Love Island or some such reality shite.

You've got to play the game you're in. Not the game you'd like to be in.

And so the game continues, instead of challenging it and doing something actually useful in the real world.

It’s not just that, Corbyn’s policies were a big part of turning people off.

instead of challenging it and doing something actually useful in the real world.

Well you'll never do anything actually useful in the real world if you don't get elected.

You'll sit on the opposition benches pissing and whinging and making no difference to people's lives. Nice work.

You need to read this bit of the Freedland article again

That’s what a political party is for ... Its purpose is to win and exercise power in the here and now. It is either a plausible vehicle for government or it is nothing.

People deserve a Labour party that can get itself elected. That's where Blair succeeded and Corbyn categorically, unquestioningly failed.

Whatever your thoughts about him, he's right about this

Corbyn’s policies were a big part of turning people off

Apparently they weren’t. When people were shown them without being told which party had produced them, they were popular.