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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

UCAS utterly unfair

626 replies

Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 18:25

My third child is filling out his UCAS form and as happened with his sister he has to put the highest earner in the household on the form, which will affect his loan, this isn’t me it’s my DH who is not father to any of my children.

He is still paying maintenance for his own children and is not financially responsible for mine, how on earth is this fair?

OP posts:
noideaatallreally · 17/12/2019 19:24

So when (if) your DHs children go to uni his income will not be taken into account so he will not be supporting them financially?

BeatriceTheBeast · 17/12/2019 19:24

Yanbu! I actually had no idea this was the case and I find it outrageous.

ThemoonisanAmericanism · 17/12/2019 19:25

A grandmother’s income would not be taken into account.

ThemoonisanAmericanism · 17/12/2019 19:26

Here is the actual form saying whose income should be included:

media.slc.co.uk/sfe/1920/ft/sfe_pff2_form_1920_o.pdf

Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 19:27

@noideaatallreally.

No it won’t be

OP posts:
SourAndSnippy · 17/12/2019 19:28

I can’t register him with his dad unfortunately as he’s “between homes” atm

Another reason you can't is because It would be fraudulent unless your child actually lived with his father.

ThatssomebadhatHarry · 17/12/2019 19:28

It’s a bonkers system. They’re ADULTS applying for finance in their own name. It’s like me going to Barclays and applying for a loan, and them asking me what my mum earns

What’s even more bonkers is when you go to uni away for 3 years (financially independent) and then live on your own and work full time for nearly another 2 after that and still have to declare parents income for a masters degree!

Xenia · 17/12/2019 19:31

Yes and similar for child benefit too - impoverished mothe or father but rich new live in partner equals no child bnefit even if the new partner doesn't give you a penny. My divorce course order says I pay the universiy costs no matter who the children live with. Check yours in case your ex husband has a similar clause and obligation.

Also on divorce a step partner who has paid towards a a step child - child of amily - not even biological child - has obligatios - eg one man I know was paying £30k per year for 2 step children to board at Millfield school. Because he was kind and his wife had never done a day's work in her life on the divorce he had to carry on paying the £60k a year.

[I pay my twins' student fees of £9250 x 2 a year and their rent x 2 and an allowance at university so save the taxpayer a small fortune, given most students never pay the full loan back, and I think the state should allow all that to be tax deductible as I am saving the state a lot of money by doing that and working full time to fund it etc however I won't hold my breath]

It may be worth checking divorce law as I had a vague feeling that if parents are divorced the non resident parent could be obliged to contribute.

yes I have looked it up - it is the last bit of this below that I meant - right of the child - not the parent - to apply to the non resident parent for money:
www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/blog/parents-university-fees-and-child-maintenance/

"Generally, in cases where separated spouses cannot reach an agreement about finances the court can only approve a child maintenance agreement rather than impose a child maintenance order. If a child is at university they do not qualify for maintenance through the Child Maintenance Service and as a general rule the court will not make an order to support them.

There is an important exception however. If a child is over 18 and ‘receiving instruction at an educational establishment or undergoing training for a trade, profession or vocation, whether or not he is also, or will also be, in gainful employment’ one parent can seek an order from their spouse for provision to be made in a court order to pay towards university fees. In reality, this means your child could be working full-time as well as studying and you could still be expected to support your child’s education. The court still needs to take into consideration the various factors required by law before making an order to pay university fees but it is still worth remembering.

There is another option available to children who may be worried about funding university fees if their parents aren’t prepared to help. A child over 18 years can make an application for financial support if they are in education as detailed above. This is covered by Schedule 1 of the Children Act 1989, there are very similar considerations that the court must take into account but this is a claim that could be made against either or both parents."

ChickenyChick · 17/12/2019 19:32

OP the system seems quite unfair and not taking into account blended families!

can you find a solution? get a loan / or better, explain the situation to them /

you can't be the only one

IdiotInDisguise · 17/12/2019 19:32

Sometimes things are unfair, my neighbour was married to an oncologist and after divorce she got a lot of assets and a hefty maintenance, she didn’t work at all for years (household income well below the treshold) so the DDs,who had a pretty affluent upbringing even ended up from hardship funds from their universities.

But for every one of these people who unfairly benefit from the system, there are hundreds of families who cannot afford to send their kids to uni with the amount provided by maintenance loans. Household income is not a great indicator of disposable income if you live in a expensive area of have more than one child.

rhubarbcrumbles · 17/12/2019 19:36

He has no obligation as far as student finance are concerned to pay for his own children's university education as their finance is calculated based on household income, i.e. their mother's household which your DH is not part of.

He is part of your household and so his income will be taken into account, that's how the system works. He benefits from not being expected to contribute for his own children but is expected to contribute to the children in his household, it's how the system works.

Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 19:36

I was never married to his dad Grin

OP posts:
PianoTuner567 · 17/12/2019 19:37

You’re married. Legally, your money and assets are all joint. While you might not share it in reality, you do in the eyes of the law.

I’d be pretty pissed off if taxpayer-financed loans were given to children who had millionaire stepfathers living in the house but ‘oh, he doesn’t pay for us’.

(Not saying your DH is a millionaire, just making the point)

Iwasneveragoddess · 17/12/2019 19:38

He’s not a millionaire though and we can’t afford to help him - also we have six kids and would have to do it for the five others too.

OP posts:
Trewser · 17/12/2019 19:39

You’re married. Legally, your money and assets are all joint

Yes isn't that the case?

ThemoonisanAmericanism · 17/12/2019 19:40

If you have six kids living with you, that will be taken into account in the loan application.

If they don’t live with you, your incomes are not taken into account.

theunknownknown · 17/12/2019 19:41

Why would you though PianoTuner?
It is a loan that the student has to pay back? So why should it be based on parental/step-parental income?
They are adults.

HowDeepIsYourGlove · 17/12/2019 19:42

@ThemoonisanAmericanism yes a grandparents income is considered if you live in the same household and they are of working age.
It’s one of the reasons I moved out from living with my mum

ThemoonisanAmericanism · 17/12/2019 19:44

Student finance was the tipping point in my decision to leave DH. I knew he wouldn’t help the kids financially and they wouldn’t get a full loan and bursary if we lived with him, so we left.

WaxOnFeckOff · 17/12/2019 19:44

I find it frustrating too and we aren't even a blended family. In Scotland if your household income is over £34k then the maximum loan is £4750. That barely even covers accommodation. It takes no account of how many other children are at home or you are already supporting at Uni. I know the DC don't pay tuition but the reality is that that's a future charge and doesn't affect what they get to live on while studying although I obviously appreciate the future impact.

Keeping in mind that the loan is money they are borrowing, not free cash, I don't know why they restrict it so much. Essentially someone on a household income of £34k could be supporting 2DC in uni and maybe more at home. Even if you just took them up to the maximum they could get if you were on a lower income, that's £3k per DC per year. Scottish degrees are 4 years usually.

The system just doesn't cater properly I don't think.

Pipstelle · 17/12/2019 19:44

You're going to have to tell your son he either works for a year beforehand or he doesn't go. Sorry it's been a surprise to you. I think it's a bollocks system and makes a lot of assumptions. It's even worse for children who are properly estranged but struggle to prove it. It's slowly migrating to a US system of university fees.

ThemoonisanAmericanism · 17/12/2019 19:44

Glove, I’ve posted a link to the form showing whose income is included.

BinkyBaa · 17/12/2019 19:46

@ThatssomebadhatHarry do you? Not disagreeing that student finance looks at the wrong thing most of the time, but I didn't have to declare my parents income for the masters loan as it isn't means tested. You get get much as you request out of the maximum amount. I got fairly low finance during my BA but was able to claim the full MA loan. I wasn't a mature student either, I went straight from BA to MA.

bbcessex · 17/12/2019 19:48

@IdiotInDisguise has it nailed...
Household income is not an indicator of disposable income...

Nor a guarantee of funds that a parent is prepared to give, for that matter.

YANBU OP - it's a very outdated, unfair system.

MerryChristmasUfilthyanimal · 17/12/2019 20:03

YANBU. It's a ridiculous system.

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