So many martyrs at Christmas

[Changinforaflamin]

And it’s always women... why?

Why do we do it to ourselves? Why do we struggle to just say no and do things the way we want? Or why do we let lazy partners get away with doing nothing?

I’ve been guilty of this myself but my husband never does it and I don’t get why.

Please enlighten me

The thing that no one is seeming to grasp about all of this patriarchal argument is that most men actually don't give a shit about all of this stuff. This is why they don't do it. If women don't do something, it is other women complaining that they haven't done it, not the men. It is not for the benefit of men, it is to ensure that women are maintaining their social position amongst other women.

That was me.

My XH used to be fond of saying, ‘Christmas doesn’t start for me until Christmas Eve.’

By that time, I’d been flat out for weeks planning Christmas. I’d buy all the presents for both sides and our kids, buy and cook all the food, sort advent calendars etc etc etc.

We had his family for Christmas Day every year, and they were a complex needs family. Two profoundly disabled sisters and FIL with early-onset Alzheimer’s. Plus he didn’t get on with his mother, and we had two kids of our own.

Then on Boxing Day we’d host my side of the family, which meant catering for 25.

He barely lifted a finger. I used to have a massive meltdown every year - usually when I found the four Christmas cards he had responsibility for had gone unposted yet again.

My now-DH is a different kettle of fish. He starts planning in about October, bless him. He’s sorted the online shop, went to get the tree yesterday - he’s a star.

I’ve slowly learned to loosen my grip on Christmas and it’s much happier all round. I find the lovely moments are the ones that happen spontaneously anyway.

Yes, blame women for making sure their kids have stockings and the wider family have presents and are happy with family arrangements!

Some men really would not do Christmas for their kids, including lots of absent dads. Should those mums really not bother then, just sit in sipping a sherry and explaining to the children the concept of WifeWork?

Of course not,they crack on with a bit of cooking, shopping, wrapping often to quite a basic standard so their children can feel they actually had a Christmas, and then get slagged off online as if they are some type of uber-perfectionist looking for a magical Christmas.

What do you call it then when the partner/children have done things but not to the other person standards? That's not giving the others a Christmas they want. That's you giving them what you want.

And what is a perfect Christmas? Isn't it about spending time together with the people you love?

How do you create memories? You cannot. These things happen spontaneously.

So what is the real motivation behind it?
Why are you doing this to yourself?

Jesus.

I cannot imagine a greater punishment than doing Christmas. So I don't.

It's my husband who sorts out the tree, snacks, wraps presents, etc. He's the one spending time looking for Just the Right Gift for our son. He does it for our kid - so he can have an enjoyable Christmas, and he knows that if he doesn't do it, I won't do it, and there won't be a Christmas at all. He's not too bothered about all of this, and neither am I, so he only does it to make sure the kid doesn't miss out.

And if you reverse the sexes in my particular situation, you'll get your answer as to why so many Women do what my husband does.

I try not to martyr myself but it's very much a case of if I don't do it, it doesn't happen - except for cooking Christmas lunch/dinner, which the husband does.

I think he thinks that's adequate recompense for me doing every other bastarding thing - I don't think it quite makes it, but it's something and it is one less thing I would have to do so I am grateful he does it.

I still have to buy all the stuff though - that's very much "my job" .

But at least we always have Christmas at our own house, largely because MIL would insist on having fuckwit alco BIL there if we had it at hers, and I wouldn't do that. I put up with him for a few short hours on Christmas Eve instead, when there are lots more people around - that's a reasonable compromise.

Pinkarsed

But surely you can see that it's not a fair division of 'Christmas' to host both of your entire families every year?

If you're hosting your family of 25, that must mean if was shared fairly, you'd only do it once every 3 or 4 years at most?

It also sounds surprising that his 'complex needs family' were willing/able to travel to you every year?

Your anger should have been directed far wider than your ex, as it sounds like there's a lot of people there not pulling their weight. Or that you chose to do it all for everyone like that woman from the Morrisons advert a few years ago.

www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/morrisons-christmas-ads-investigated-asa/1163725

I hate the use of “martyr”. In my experience it’s usually used to describe a woman trapped in a circle of societal expectations and sexism. Calling her a martyr is a good way of avoiding addressing the issues that put her in that circle, and blaming the victim

This.

It's the same with "wifework" generally. In my social circle there are 3 men that either genuinely pick up 50% of housework, christmas stuff, cooking etc, or do the majority share. One friends wife insists they don't need a cleaner because "the house doesn't really get dirty"- she absolutely doesn't realise it's because her DH does it...

Anyway- those 3 men that do pick up the wifework- they all lost their mums before they were teenagers.

It is a vicious circle. Social conditioning leads men to not pay attention to what needs doing- like my friends wife it seems there isn't much because it all gets done in the background. Little girls are given dusters and toy hoovers and kitchens and praised for being "good little helpers" .

But what do we do to break the cycle? If we stop doing stuff it simply won't get done and there'll be no food or presents at christmas. Even if you have a willing DH it's almost as much of a PITA having to direct and instruct.

It's an interesting one...

@Totallycluelessoverhere get an egg pan then if he cannot work out that different pans aren't the same.
Overcooked eggs, that's lunch sorted so not the end of the world if no one likes them hard-boiled.

We have a division of labour in our house....DH does cleaning and tidying (and yes our house is a shit tip in general so its worth doing to have a nice christmas day) and present wrapping and I do cooking.

I realised that a big part of hating doing christmas for me was being on my own stressing in the kitchen for hours on end. Now I've worked it out so DD and DH are also around keeping me company and playing games etc. so I am not lonely. I think it took us about 8 years but we have just about cracked our family christmas!

cava you hit the the nail on the head.

And for the poster who said I should let my husband crack on with frozen dinners; that would not work for the people in the house who have allergies. I’m more than happy for him to eat them though.

Wasn't the hosting both families over the two days a piss take?

"most men actually don't give a shit about all of this stuff. This is why they don't do it."

I partially agree with this but not always - some of them would give a massive shit about it not happening, but they're still not prepared to pull their finger out and do anything about it, because they've never had to.

And in my case, if it was just DH and I, then no, I probably wouldn't bother. But it's not fair on the boys to do fuck all, so I do it. I do it for them because their father just wouldn't. I realise that becomes a Catch 22 situation, but in all honesty it's not worth "teaching the husband a lesson" because he's not the one who would suffer, is he. His own parents should have taught him better - but they didn't.

I WILL teach my boys better - they will learn that it should be a team job, not a one-person job (they already know that cooking is done by both of us) but it's too late for the husband while the boys are still little.

It’s ok, Barbara it’s all way in the past.

My ex-ILs are all dead now, bless them, but when they used to come to us, it was a case of us trying to make sure our boys had a good day. We couldn’t very well leave MIL alone on Christmas with three family members who needed care, but she would have tried to manage (very difficult stubborn woman) and things would have gone tits up.

I didn’t mind having my lot round, but that’s all over now as they all have grandkids of their own, and new-DH put a stop to me running myself ragged anyway.

I fully admit I was a martyr in the past. But my XH was a lazy bastard too.

He doesn’t understand that using a big pan of cold water means the egg takes longer to cook than if you use a small pan with preheated water.

He doesn't need to 'understand' it. He just needs to stick to using a smaller pan.

But eggs aside, I think part of the problem is people accepting their DPs 'can't cook', instead of realising they can't be arsed to practice, practice, practice.

Women didn't pop out of the womb knowing how to cook/do housework.

It's all about practice, being allowed to make mistakes and learning from them.

Claiming 'I can't do it' and leaving it all to the other partner is a pathetic cop out.

You can buy ready meals to meet the needs of those with allergies/dietary needs. There's still a long way to go, but better than it was 5 years ago.

if it’s because you don’t like the guests why are they in your home?

yeah because life is as simple as that

My husband does find it difficult to do certain things which most people take for granted but actually they require a certain degree of common sense and practical thinking skills. I do wonder if the children have inherited their asd from him. And no he can’t successfully boil an egg. Sometimes he gets it right but more often than not it is over cooked / undercooked. He doesn’t understand that using a big pan of cold water means the egg takes longer to cook than if you use a small pan with preheated water. He has enough intelligence to have worked for several decades in a job which needs a reasonable level of intelligence but some simple things are totally beyond him

Some simple wimmin's things? Sorry, but I'm not buying this. If he can drive a car, use a computer and hold down a job that requires intelligence he can boil a fucking egg through memorising the routine.

Oh dear. Perhaps I don't pull my weight at Christmas...
My partner does the cooking, cleaning of the oven and deep clean of house (I chip in with tidying obvs) and buying food, booze, nibbles for the whole family gathering.
He's just better than me. I'm going to hide at work packing in the overtime haha. Away from the madness

Why isn't it that simple to not have people you don't like in your home? If I don't like someone they aren't in my life, and they aren't coming into my home. It's the place I should feel comfortable. Adding unliked people only creates tension, thus creating an uncomfortable environment for everyone else.

As a good host, surely a part of that involves making your guests feel welcome. I would rather stay alone than persevere through a day like that. Hardly a fun time for the children either.

Some people love to complain. If you want ‘perfect’ christmases then that’s up to you but it seems daft to make it a huge chore.
Christmas should be about enjoying each other’s company. Not how many hours you’ve spent in the kitchen.

We have low key Christmas’s but still have a good time. We didn’t have a tree one year 😅 and we never do more cooking than we want. In the past I have made a big effort to get the kids presents that I know they would enjoy but I wanted to do that.

If a male is being obnoxious and telling a female she has to do xmas then that’s obviously not ok and suggests there are far bigger issues in the relationship than Xmas agnst.

my mum is now in her late 70s, but years ago she found a way out from under the load. They always hosted, parents, PIL, single uncle etc, they all came to us, to on Christmas Eve, as everyone arrived, they were offered coffee, wine, and a potato peeler. By the end of the day, all the guests had prepared all the veg, and the chestnuts for the stuffing, and at the same time, my Dad had the job of stuffing and preping the turkey.
Kids, as soon as we were old enough were in charge of the table, and so on. She leant to delegate, delegate and delegate.

It made a huge difference, and also made everyone help. They were also very firm about kids and visitors doing the clearing up and washing up, which to be fair was usually a bit of a riot in the kitchen while my mum sat down with a glass of wine. (and we knew we had to clear up properly)

But there was still LOADS that needed doing, and was done mostly by her.

He's just better than me. I'm going to hide at work packing in the overtime haha. Away from the madness

For 'He's just better than me', I read 'I can't be fucking arsed'.

Why don't you do more than just a bit of tidying up? Why do you think it's fair to do fuck all and enjoy the Christmas your DP has had to organise alone?

I do wonder how many of those who don't want to be involved would suddenly change their minds when left out.
Or those incapable would suddenly find the ability to practice.

Cannot cook, so what happens when you're not there?

And those that buy every single gift, surely you don't mean yours from your partner/children as well?

@squashyhat the idea of the deep clean to me is to get rid of all the old clutter/unwanted toys to make room for all the new stuff. And every home needs a deep clean occasionally, I’d imagine your house is actually a roach infested shit tip if all you’ve ever done is dust and run a hoover round