To think many working/middle class are now ‘poor’?

[WorldsOnFire]

Inspired by the ‘People are terrible Scrooge’s who clearly don’t want to help the poor’ explosion on MN recently I read an article about a single mother on UC ‘left in tears’ as she ‘only’ had £60 left for Christmas. (Many similar threads recently about tight Christmas budgets so a lot of people in similar boats).

What shocked me was the hundreds of comments from FT working professionals - nurses, teachers, tradesmen, IT professionals, social workers... the list goes on. All jobs earning £20K+ and many with two adults in one home, all saying they were in the same (some even worse) situations. They receive no help as they earn too much but the cost of living is so high they can’t afford to heat their homes and pay their mortgages/childcare 😦. I find this shocking!

It sounds like those who don’t work/work PT (for whatever reason- not here to debate right/wrong of UC 🙄) are topped up by UC whilst those working FT aren’t and actually there’s not much difference at the end of the month.

AIBU to think that the whole country maybe aren’t terrible Scrooge’s and in reality the working/lower middle class who used to give to ‘the poor’ are now becoming The Poor and therefore are less compassionate/willing to help?

I bet those complaining they are poor have sky, smoke and drink. It’s all about priorities. I’m not making a wild generalisation. I’m commenting from 30 years of dealing with people from the lower end of the economic scale.

bet those complaining they are poor have sky, smoke and drink hey Daily Mail has popped up

Tax credits may have been brought in in 2003, but didn't low income families get extra support prior to this ,what was supplementary benefit ?

Doesn't matter how much your outgoings are, if you say you're poor on a £40k salary you're an idiot.
A single mother of one child under three in London is unable to cover only rent and childcare from those earnings. Never mind food, utilities or travel.

I think it really depends on each family. I know a couple who genuinely struggle as they have twins in childcare ft, leave in Essex, both commute for their job, pay quite a bit in their pension and have to really count every pound but they see it as temporary situation and trust that in a few years, they'll be in a much better position.

I also have a colleague who constantly moans that he and his wife have no money left at the end of the month, but both will go shopping for clothes and gadgets as soon as they get paid. He comes with breakfast bought in petrol stations and then will have posh ready meals for lunch. They see it as the normal they should be able to enjoy on their income rather luxuries.

Only fools
The previous poster already said he had 30 years worth of experience in this area,so what has the Daily Mail got to do with it

I live in social housing. Im child free by choice. No Sky dont smoke or drink. Im 46 and have never ever been drunk. Its never interested me. Neither has having children. Am i really such a rarity?

A roof over your head, basic utilities and food in the fridge Should be affordable on minimum wage!

However, surely those in professional roles which require higher levels of training and education ANBU to expect to be able to afford 1 week abroad each year and the occasional treat (like a takeaway), otherwise what’s the point in aspiring to ‘better’?

Yes there are plenty of cashiers and cleaners who do have degrees and are capable of more (either choosing not to or unable to advance).

But it’s not wrong to say there is a professional hierarchy and you would expect a minimum wage worker to be able to afford the basics - a recognised profession to afford a bit more than that and a ‘higher’ end profession to be pretty comfortable.

The system just seems broken all the way through - minimum wage workers can’t survive, professions struggle and higher end professions do ‘ok’.

My phone is a few years old No iphone as i cant afford it and would find one too complicated.

Well I don't know what it was called in 1995 when I was working and getting top ups but I definatly did

Not to mention house prices/rent was much cheaper back then and childcare

I think the London Bubble refers more to a metropolitan attitude, not income

It doesn’t always come across like that. It often sounds like a snarky way of lumping in 8 million ordinary people with a handful of out of touch politicians and the super rich.

Yes, London rents are high. I know people paying £2K a month for a small flat (rent.) London house prices are extortionate compared to the rest of the UK and people who live in central London accept that- or they move out and commute. It's their choice.

My friend lives in Zone 2. Her ‘choice’, in order to find significantly lower rent, would be to move out of London. Away from her her child’s father (back to court to argue that out), and away from the cebtre of the industry she works for, with significantly reduced employment prospects.

I know lots of Londoners have to make these choices. But it’s a shit part of being in the ‘London bubble’ and if we are all expected to just stop whining and leave in order to survive financially there will be nobody left in our country’s capital city...

It makes sense for university funding to be the same for everyone and just have it that people pay back different amounts depending on what you earn. It's just a way of allocating money to universities. It really is a tax system not a loan system and it's very poorly understood.

I don't know, I think times are rapidly changing and it's hard, especially with children to explain why you cant have x or y. I grew up in a household where there wasn't a penny left over at the end of the month- no heating, enough hot water for just the one bath so we took it in turns going in first when it was still hot, chocolate just at Christmas, pasta everyday, no car, no foreign holidays (a weekend away every other year in the UK); but there wasn't the pressure of social media, brands weren't such a big thing at school, and it was common to look after others in the street and pass on school uniforms etc. I had a great childhood, but my parents struggled and went without. We have neighbours constantly moaning as they park their 2 cars on the drive, knock and tell us to keep an eye on their house as they're off abroad again. I don't think it's a competition though and it's relative, but I do feel there is a stark difference between struggling and being poor where you are counting the pennies and they aren't enough.

Yes I struggled horribly working full time as a nurse but also being a single parent of two. I was a registered nurse working extra shifts on top of my full time hours but still found it hard to pay my rent, bills, and feed and clothe my kids. I had to have a car because of being on call at night, the public transport didnt run at night.

I used to cry when the gas and electric bills came in.

Im watching the poor feeding the poor through food banks

And an MP Miriam Cates cashing in on food banks

I’ve watched someone on housing benefit stuff a £10 note in another’s hand as they were hard up...

The gap will widen

Oh, I have loads to reply to on here. I'll work my way backwards! There are lots of myths, half truths and untruths when it comes to benefits.

Marleyisme. The Conservative government in 1970 brought in Family Income Supplement. It was replaced with Family Credit in 1986. That was then replaced with Working Families Tax Credit in 1999. THEN Working/Child Tax Credit was introduced in 2003. So for many many years working familes have been able to get top ups to their income. Nothing to do with a Labour Governement either, as it was the Tories who set the first scheme up.

Actually it was called family credit. And introduced in the 1986s for working people on low incomes.

Previous to that it was called family income supplement.........it's been there for a long time. Propping up those feckless poor people.

The housing ladder is awful and cost of housing does cause a lot of issues.
However, I don’t think I’m alone when I say I’d be devastated if it crashed. DH and I (and many many of our peers/friends) have bought in the last few years- it was a huge struggle and If the market crashed we’d be in serious negative equity!

£40k might sound like a good salary but if you're bringing up children in London on it, you won't be flush.

It's £2500 a month after tax...roughly.

After rent/mortgage, council tax, utilities, travel, food etc it's not much left over.

You'll be able to live but you won't have a lot of spare cash

@OnlyFoolsnMothers it's not bullshit at all. You're not poor if you're on £40k. Having high outgoings doesn't mean you are poor. Working full time and having to claim benefits to top up your wages as they're not enough to live on is poor.

Childcare costs, are a massive drain on income, but they don't last forever.

@ivykaty44 She wont be cashing in for much longer.

Dominic Lipscombe
@DomLip94
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20h
Tweeted about this before but had to do a tweet delete

Basically, a tory MP has a food bank app but charges each FB £180+VAT to use it

I’ve started building one which will be 100% free to use

I need advice on what the actual users need on it, so dm/email me. Thanks

@myfbfapp

The repayments start when you earn £25k

They're even less for loans taken whilst under the last Labour Government. People forget that.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

"I’m really struggling at the moment. My working tax credits have been cut as I have over 16k equity in my property that I can not turn into cash. Once my debts have been paid off I have about 20k not much but something and better than nothing

But this is the ridiculous part if my flat drops in value by 5k (likely) I can not only claim tax credits but also full housing benefit (interest only mortgage) and that would work out to £1350 a month."

Equity in property that is your only home is absolutely not taken in to account for benefits. None at all. If your tax credits have dropped, it will not be for that reason. If you want to know more, I can help over PM.

You can not claim housing benefit anymore (unless recieving SDP in your benefits). It was replaced by UC. Also, you can not get help towards mortgaged housing other than a loan now. There is also a 9 month (or 39 week) waiting period to be eligible for it.

I think the cost of childcare is astronomical. In many cases the childcare costs more than one salary. Once kids at school things get easier.

@HeIenaDove

That is great, how could they make money from this is beyond evil.