To think many working/middle class are now ‘poor’?

[WorldsOnFire]

Inspired by the ‘People are terrible Scrooge’s who clearly don’t want to help the poor’ explosion on MN recently I read an article about a single mother on UC ‘left in tears’ as she ‘only’ had £60 left for Christmas. (Many similar threads recently about tight Christmas budgets so a lot of people in similar boats).

What shocked me was the hundreds of comments from FT working professionals - nurses, teachers, tradesmen, IT professionals, social workers... the list goes on. All jobs earning £20K+ and many with two adults in one home, all saying they were in the same (some even worse) situations. They receive no help as they earn too much but the cost of living is so high they can’t afford to heat their homes and pay their mortgages/childcare 😦. I find this shocking!

It sounds like those who don’t work/work PT (for whatever reason- not here to debate right/wrong of UC 🙄) are topped up by UC whilst those working FT aren’t and actually there’s not much difference at the end of the month.

AIBU to think that the whole country maybe aren’t terrible Scrooge’s and in reality the working/lower middle class who used to give to ‘the poor’ are now becoming The Poor and therefore are less compassionate/willing to help?

Housing and car/travel to work costs can be really high for a lot of people.
Worst is private rentals which are really expensive and you don't have the benefits of having a mortgage or the security and lower cost of public housing.

Childcare too is expensive although thankfully that expense is at least time limited.

Also pets cost a fortune especially the vet bills. We adore our rescue cat but boy has she been expensive.

Wages on the other hand for many of us have been falling in real terms eg NHS staff whilst food, utilities and council tax move forever upwards in cost.

It's certainly hard for many working people to feel financially secure. Saving to contribute to uni maintenance costs has been a big thing for us and means that we can no longer afford holidays. After that time is over we will probably need to divert that money to pensions rather than holidays.

Being on benefits is definitely worse but working doesn't seem to deliver as much extra available cash as you would hope it would as you suddenly have to pay for all sorts of things that are free when on benefits.

Why aren't more people becoming childminders if childcare costs are so astronomical? I heard on the news last week that the numbers of registered childminders are falling dramatically. Surely it could be a good source of income for many.

I don't understand either. A lot of people will be along to say that OFSTED is cumbersome and so forth, but it seems like there should be a lot of political pressure to relax the red tape a bit. It's obviously not all useful.

Bills are definitely proportionally more expensive. 20 years ago I lived on benefit income and it was possible to live on it and pay your bills. Gas and electric were about £20 a month or something and there were no water meters. I certainly never worried about putting my heating on or whether I could afford food. I wasn't rolling in obviously but I wasn't sitting in the cold and having to access food banks. It's obviously partly due to the benefit freezes in the last few years and the local housing allowance etc etc but basic bills and food have also become much more expensive.

We have a good income and I bargain hunt and we have to think about our spending and budget. It doesn't surprise me that lower earners are easily struggling.

To some degree how poor you feel is tied up with how much you want but can't afford.

Assuming you can pay your rent, buy food and heat your home then you're fine.

I earn 16k a year and can do all of the above. I have nothing left over for savings but manage the odd weekend away in the uk and have lots of hobbies that don't cost anything. I don't feel I want for anything and do not consider myself poor.

b its not sensationalist.

It is out of context and designed to provoke outrage, is it not?

What do you think about the Trussell Group charging £1500 + £360? Do you agree that's quite a bit more money than £180?

Depends on your outgoings. I’m a teacher and DH is an engineer so together we pull in around 70k. We live in the North so our mortgage is quite small even on a 5 bed house. We run two cars, we have enough cash to buy the four DC everything they need and take them to nice places. We’re what I would describe as comfortable, not poor. I don’t doubt we would be poor down south though.

Im sure that someone more knowledgable about why more people arent becoming childminders will answer your post @mindproject

@mindproject - it is a good idea and im sure it would work for some people, but childminding is very regulated. They have ofsted inspections, first aid training, have to follow the early years curriculumn. The paperwork puts alot of people off. Also you have to like other peoples children! A lot of people have one child as thats what they can manage to look after.

Of course its more All you are doing is proving that even MORE people are profiting from the poor

And some tenancy agreements have clauses about running a business from the property.

www.familyandchildcaretrust.org/why-number-childminders-london-dropping
It's not flexible work any more and there is too much red tape are the answers according to that survey. I still think not owning your own home would be a reason too. Private tenants do not have the security to run their own businesses.

Of course its more All you are doing is proving that even MORE people are profiting from the poor

Or maybe it's their cost of delivering the service, even at zero profit.

Point being that you were peddling this as Tories profiteering off of foodbanks when it's a completely normal practice, and in fact this Tory MP was offering her own service at a dramatically lower cost than the one example cited in the article.

I think you copy and paste so much nonsense that people rarely bother to check it.

Surely council tax needs changing too though. It’s crazy the way the banding system is worked out. I live in a 3 bed detached in a quite poor area and mine is over £170 pm.

The "squeezed middle" own property though. They have pensions and ISAS. Their money goes into their long term security. Its like all these middle class parents I know who say they can only afford to go camping, but they go in their reliable 5 year old Volkswagon with their 500 quid tent and they don't have to worry about ice cream money!
They may not have tons left over every month but that's AFTER they have funnelled money into insulating themselves from actual poverty.
Poor or not poor is often not about ready cash.

@ThisMustBeMyDream So people earning 2.5k can get benefits?

Ah there is that new Tory unity Boris was talking about.

But for households earning £20k-£40k ish- worrying about being able to heat their home and buy food seems insane. These people shouldn’t be ‘poor’.

These people are not poor FFS. If there are 2 adults, 2 children, council tax of £1200 a year then their earnings of 20k a year put them on an income of £361 a week ahead of 10% of the population. If they both earn 20k a year then that puts them ahead of 55% of the population.

£361 a week is not poor by any stretch of the imagination, they just need to learn to budget. Before you all pile on, both examples earn more than our household.

Family Credit Saskia brought in by Majors government I think.

But £361 a week in London is nothing. You couldn’t even make rent or mortgage with that.

Sorry to keep banging on about London, but it’s important!

Living costs are ridiculously high. Once we’ve paid off all of our essential living costs (not including costs of childcare/education or any spending on fun things) we’ve paid about £2-3k. Add on school and nursery fees plus nonessential but routine spending and we’re spending £6k a month easily.

Ah there is that new Tory unity Boris was talking about.

More deflection.

The "squeezed middle" own property though. still? It's harder & harder to do this without help.

But £361 a week in London is nothing. You couldn’t even make rent or mortgage with that.

Then people earning £361 a week won't be living in London will they? If that isn't enough to pay the rent or mortgage then they will be living outside London.

Ok childcare costs don’t last forever but they are easily taken by breakfast club, after school club, school uniform, school trips, lunch money

Breakfast club and after school club at my dcs school if you attended everyday would come to £100 a week so £400 a month. Lunches are £55...my dd does an after school club once a week...it costs £50 a term. It adds up very quickly. Then we had to pay a £100 deposit for a trip with 4 weeks notice.

Add on school and nursery fees plus nonessential but routine spending and we’re spending £6k a month easily.

Nursery fees, yes. School fees are not essential, your children don't have to go private.