To be confused and upset about this situation with my family and Christmas presents

[Macnabber]

I have a really distant relationship with my parents. My mum had a drinking problem when i grew up and was very violent and unpredictable. I was the oldest so bore the brunt of it. Have some terrible memories including her trying to smash my bedroom door down with a knife, waking up to see her cutting up my favourite dress with scissors. She hit me a lot. Really awful things.

Fast forward 40 years and i talk to her and we have a semblance of an ok if distant relationship. She doesn't ever visit me (2 hours away). She doesn't drink any more.

My younger sister has a drink problem and some mental health issues, as do my brothers. I've spent many years looking after them and supporting them. For the last 20 years I've been married to my dh and have two fab kids. I have a lovely home life with no arguments and a calm and loving atmosphere.

This year my sister has hit rock bottom and I've spent many hours helping her to sort her life and find some temporary accommodation for her and her dd.

This is all background to the problem i have. We are quite strapped for cash this Christmas as one of our dcs has gone to uni and its been expensive among other things and I spoke to my mum and said would she mind if we only did presents for the kids this year not adults. She seemed fine about it. I have bought my niece and nephews nice presents but nothing for adults.

Yesterday I got a Christmas card in the post from my parents with no messge, just their names. Nothing for the dcs, so clearly making a point. Then tonight my brother rang me and said he wanted to discuss how much i had upset my parents by not buying them anything for Christmas. He said they "lived" for presents from me and I'd ruined their Christmas.

I'm afraid to say i put the phone down on him.

He's since texted me quite nasty texts.

I'm 54! Please someone tell me IABU? I know it's impossible to get all the detail across. I sometimes wish I could cut myself off from my parents and siblings as they never add anything positive to my lives and are obsessed with the fact that we have money and a happy life.

No i hadn't heard of the flying monkey concept! Will read up on it. I had a brief look at the ootf forum and it looks helpful, thank you. One of the terms I read was 'parentified' which resonates hugely. On Mother's Day this year my dsis sent me a text wishing me a happy mothers day and that she always thought of me like the mother she didn't have. It made my flesh creep. I think I sent back some jolly non committal thanks. It makes it easier for them not to take on board my own problems if they think if me as a parent rather than an equal. The family recieved wisdom is that I'm a hard person, cold. This couldn't be further from the truth and in fact I am realising that I'm probably the warmest and kindest out of the lot, just not always to them.

If your child is at university then are they over 18. Maybe your parents are treating them as adults and so haven’t bought them.

Yes one is and two aren't. It's fine, I don't want them to get them anything unless they wanted to. They have form for withholding presents when they are cross, they've done it with the dcs birthdays as well, even when they were small (8 or 9). I'm not going to even mention it as clearly presents are a form of control which i hadn't realised until now!

Flying monkeys is an amazing description, actually made me feel sick reading the explanation of what they are.

Easier said than done I know but OP, for your own mental health please go no contact if you can. Have more counselling. Read that Stately Homes thread and surround yourself with people who genuinely love and like you, who don’t twist things, abuse you and try to make you feel guilty. Your DH sounds lovely. Focus on the family you have built rather than the ruins of the family your parents created and destroyed. It is not a bad thing to do any of the above I promise.

Macnabber - coming for someone who has had a similar background YADNBU and i urge you to go at the very least low contact.

My own mother was an alcoholic. At 21 years of age i took custody of my 14 yo sister and 16yo brother as she was useless and tried to commit suicide in front of them. After this i went low contact and then when i had my daughter and thought about my childhood more i just couldn't get my head around some of the things she did whilst i was growing up. I couldn't contemplate doing that to my DD and eventually i more or less cut her out completely. She brought nothing but stress to my life and i'd had enough. I made the choice to forgive everything she did without an apology and it brought me peace.

She died at 49 from liver and pancreas failure due to her drinking and i do not regret my decision to cut her out of my life at all. I have accepted that i will never get answers to WHY and HOW she did some of the things she did and i am soo much happier for it.

Do what i best for you and your family OP. Have a nice xmas and make happy memories for you and your kids WITHOUT GUILT.

I have gone NC with my mother this year. I sometimes feel guilty and almost waver and think about contacting her, she is my mother!
Then, I remind myself why I have gone NC, this then strengthens my resolve.
Stay strong OP, your life/health will be better

I'm afraid to say i put the phone down on him.
Perfect response, well done & YANBU at all.

it's impossible to get all the detail across
Macnabber ... the beauty of Mumsnet is sometimes you don't have to. Because PP's have seen the pattern before, & recognise some of the component parts.
I would hazard that you will recognise a lot of those components yourself, here - outofthefog.website/toolbox-intro

When we deal wth dysfunctional individuals, we end up trapped in the FOG - Fear, Obligation Guilt - cycle. It is far easier for your family members to feel resentment of your 'normalcy' than to accept that they are responsible for their own problems.
Hence - they never add anything positive to my lives and are obsessed with the fact that we have money and a happy life - they would far rather assign your hard work & lack of alcohol problems as "luck" & resent you for it. Their own problems are similarly swept under the carpet as "bad luck" & lo & behold! to their disordered thinking, Macnabber OWES THEM because Macnabber just got lucky, whereas they ... etc etc

This is of course compounded by your early role as oldest sibling & de facto caretaker while you mum was so unwell, addicted & acting out. Your siblings are not prepared to take on the fact that you are skint this Xmas because that flies in the face of their invented narrative. How dare you challenge the status quo by having your own problems, feelings, & ideas? Your role is to provide stability & comfort, & clearly you now deserve badmouthing for being such an evil witch.

Note that nobody is questiong YOUR comfort, or financial position, or need for support. The role of providing all that is solely yours, in your family's eyes, & any deviation from it will be scrutinised & assigned the worst possible motives - to their disordered thinking, their problems are not their fault, hey are just "unlucky" - & you are not allowed problems, or to withdraw even slightly from your assigned role, because you are "lucky" & you "owe them".

I sometimes wish I could cut myself off from my parents and siblings
Aha, I see from an update that you are already supported by AlAnon. Great. Discuss this feeling with them. It is a perfectly legitimate & reasonable feeling to have. Please also consider some 1 on 1 therapy - I know money is a little tighter right now but your mental health needs prioritising as you deal with a potential shift in the awkward balance of your familial relationships. Your AlAnon contacts will be able to recommend tried & trusted therapists - at the very least, please get your self to a meeting pronto, & start thinking about how you would like to re-set boundaries following this incident.

I hope you can take this latest incident & use it to galvanise your thinking about your family members, & how much you want them impacting on you, DH & your own children from now on. The only family members you are responsible for are your own children, & it is NOT selfish or mean to put them, & yourself, first.

You need to take a big step back. They are not normal and toxic for your mental health. What kind of adult kicks off about the absence of a Christmas present?! Look after yourself and your family and forget about the rest. Otherwise it's going to make you depressed, and thats not fair to you or your family.

I think its best for you and your family to go very low contact with them all

tonight my brother rang me and said he wanted to discuss how much i had upset my parents by not buying them anything for Christmas. He said they "lived" for presents from me and I'd ruined their Christmas.

Are your parents children, that they need presents, despite being told that one of their OWN CHILDREN cannot afford to buy them this year?

What is DB getting out of that phone call? Who appointed him as your own personal Flying Monkey, & who is getting kicks out of correcting, reprimanding, & attempting to shame you?

I wonder if DB buys his parents, or you, presents, or if this is a convenient one-way street for him?

Presents, & money, are often the sticks which dysfunctional people use to beat others up with. It's complicated. but usually based on a "knowing price of everything but value of nothing" mentality, because their mindset is about transactions, not goodwill. Unable to understand the meaning of love, of investing time & care into people rather than money, their disordered thinking can only assess "worth" by "what's in it for me" rather than "what's sweet & unique & valuable about us".

Macnabber, you have broken a pattern of expectation & are being punished for it. Looks like you are sticking to your guns - & so you damn well should - please make sure you get some additional support from yourself via AlAnon this Xmas, & then springboard from them to some talking therapy to help you unpick your own FOG & get advice & techniques for how you want to handle your wider family going forward.

Happy Christmas

It sounds like you've stepped back out of the role that they have forced you into and don't like what you see. You don't have to step back into the role.

Why not focus on your close family. If the others contact you, instead of being "allocated mum" be honest and be the upset daughter/sister that you are, say "you have hurt me and I was hoping you would apologise". If they huff and tantrum keep telling them how disappointed you are that they never think about you.

I wonder if your role will be pushed onto another sibling when you don't act it out for them anymore.

You've done nothing wrong in fact you've gone far to try to do right by these arseholes.

Reduce contact as far as possible or just cut them out - you can not win with people like this because they are irrational at best and full of spite and venom at worst.

I'm sorry you had such a horrific childhood - they should be the ones going the distance to make amends, not having a strop because they don't get a treat from you. They don't bloody deserve a fig!

OP, you dont deserve to be treated like this by your family. You are definitely not being unreasonable.

I don't believe them for an instance. How can you, just you, ruin all of Christmas. I do not believe you have enough power over them to do that.

They are abusive. Read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. Also go to the stately homes thread. It's really helpful and the people on there understand what it's like having abusive parents. I recommend going no contact. I did with my abusive parents and I'm so much happier and healthier. My Mum used to chase me too. Sometimes I would worry about her killing me in my sleep. Do not buy them presents. I think they are using your brother as a flying monkey.

I think you are incredibly kind and forgiving for even having her in your life after what she put you through. I also grew up in a violent home. Lots of physical and emotional abuse from father and step mother. I couldn’t get passed it. They continually let me down as an adult and I removed myself from their lives about 13 years ago. It was the best thing I’ve ever done. Please do what’s best for you and your immediate family. Don’t let her continue to have a negative effect on your life. I hope you get to have a lovely and peaceful Christmas x

I don't want to repeat what's already been said several times OP but take it from someone who comes from a different sort of dysfunctional family that, if you're ever doubting your actions, there is more than one way to give someone a gift. Never mind fleeting presents like chocolates or perfume, the care, concern and help you've given your sister this year (let alone previously) is worth much more than something disposable. I just hope that one day, she, and the rest of the family, recognise this.

By contrast, my family have always given gifts. Unfortunately however I've often felt that it was just going through the motions and I still get very upset and stressed at the thought of more useless 'stuff' which is yet further proof my family isn't really interested in me because such little thought has clearly gone into it. To a ridiculous degree, it's very much 'that'll do'. On the other hand, at points in my life when I was at rock bottom (emotionally abusive relationship, forced move, breakdown etc) my family were nowhere to be seen, couldn't have cared less and despite being in a position to have made a difference in various ways, didn't offer one single jot of practical, emotional or financial assistance. I would have much preferred a kind word, the occasional shoulder and a call every now and then instead of annual Christmas tat to keep up appearances.

Needless to say, I eventually reached a point of withdrawing the support I used to give them.

The point is...... it's very common to just buy for kids. It's not just about affordability but about scaling down the whole overwhelming shebang, reducing consumerism and waste, reducing landfill, about storage.... all sorts of reasons. No one should feel obliged to explain or justify their decision and your mum's histrionics seem like an excuse to create an argument. She's completely missed the notion of true Christmas 'spirit'. A normal, decent parent would be very grateful and very proud of you for trying to pick up the pieces of your sister's life..... bitching and shit stirring about a lack of adult presents wouldn't even come into it.

You sound like you’ve spent your whole life creeping around them and their problems, not even hiding away but helping them. Yet the one time you’re asking for something to help you out you’re being given a hard time

@Honeyroar has it spot-on, & Macnabber I hope you find comfort in her words - and also contrast them with @DamnYouAutocucumber's:

With close family I've found it very easy to say no grown up presents, we all enjoy spending time together and really don't need any more stuff

People who love each other value time, not money & presents.
The time & care you have invested - especially recently with your sister - is discounted, taken for granted, "owed" to her by you ... but the moment you ask for leeway with a perfectly reasonable request, you are berated & punished.

Interesting how your mother bigged up her victim status by telling you she's fine about the kids-only present arrangements, but then chose to triangulate you as the bad guy by recruiting your brother to do her dirty work & beat you up for it. What's the betting she presented herself as "too upset to speak to Macnabber" about it, & wound DB into a froth on her behalf? Make no mistake - she is still orchestrating the *really awful things" she did to you in your childhood - she's just swapped direct physical contact with flying monkey harrassment & mind gaming.

Do you feel able to block the lot of them on phones & SM for at least the Xmas period? It would give you some much-needed peace, & time just to focus on & be happy with your own loving little family. Following that, maybe only unblock when you are back in the safe hands of a therapist, so that you have an outlet to help you manage the inevitable fallout & give you support & advice as you make decisions about how you handle your wider family both collectively & as individuals.

There is always then the option to simply never unblock ... but that is a larger & more complex decision than MN sometimes seems to appreciate, & I would not advise doing so without professional help from whatever type of counsellor suits you best. For right now, very, very low contact & Grey Rock will protect your sanity & wellbeing - & help keep as much distance as possible between your kids & their toxic GPs, aunt & uncles.

mentalhealthintervention.org/fifty-shades-of-grey-rock/

hackspirit.com/the-gray-rock-method-how-to-deal-with-a-narcissist-you-cant-avoid/

This thread is amazing. I am in the supermarket carpark so can't be long but I wish I could thank every single one of you in person. You can't possibly know what it means.

I have unfollowed them on SM. While i was doing this I found i had my other brother as a friend on fb, who lives at home with my parents. I remember my mother saying she used his account to see what my sister was doing so I've unfriended that account. It always had a blank profile pic and a nickname rather than his full name so i wonder if it was set up specifically to 'spy'. Of course my mum doesn't have her own FB account!

How pathetic, dont know what your parents are playing at!!!!

I totally agree with @messolini9, it's not as simple as cutting off your family as some have suggested. It has taken years of conditioning, enmeshment and dysfunctional family roles for these types of interactions to develop and therapeutic help is essential if you are to disengage completely and survive mentally intact. And I speak as someone who has done just that. It took me a long time to start to back away which allowed me to fully realise and appreciate the damage done to me by my family. I was the family saviour/scapegoat just like you. On the one hand overwhelmed by their neediness and on the other ground down by having them wipe their feet all over me if I didn't do as expected. I have very few happy memories from my childhood and a lot of resentment at the treatment I tolerated as an adult.

However, I am now fully no contact with my family but it has come at a big expense. Not just my toxic mother but also my siblings and wider family and anyone connected to my family. Also my emotionally retarded husband who was a version of my mother. That's a lot of losses to deal with and I still find Christmas difficult. But I am the happiest I have ever been and feel free to be the person I was supposed to be. I also have zero tolerance for CFs.

When I see these threads on MN my stomach does a flip because I know exactly how it feels to be worked over by 'family' and the longing/confusion for them to play nicely. But I also know how much better life is without these people in your life. Unfortunately only you can go through the pain and loss to get to the other side. Good luck.

A couple of things Macnabber firstly, you have to accept that your parents will never be the parents you wanted them to be, secondly, you will never be good enough for them because you are your Mum's emotional punchbag. She has to put you down to make herself feel better.

The eye opening bit is where you see the FOG and realise you don't have to do this anymore. You can be free of it all. This will be the best Christmas for you.

And also, that you are no doubt loved by your Dh and children, no doubt have friends, colleagues and people who like you. Try to see that you are probably awesome. Don't let those other bastards get you down.

Read the Stately Homes thread, nod your head and realise you are not alone. You can free yourself of this shit. Do it, and have an amazing Christmas.

Dearest OP you've hit the end of the road. Time to consider cutting contact. Or at least learning to put up the wall so they cannot hurt you anymore.
Children of the Self Absorbed by Nina Brown is a book worth reading.

Good luck x

Thank you @Dacquoise ... & also ... FFS!

Solidarity, sister & fellow survivor :)

Macnabber the only way I could escape this shit was finally walking away. Honest to god I never looked back and my self esteem rocketed.

Make sure your posts are set to private so only your friends can see them. If you have common aquaintances your posts could still show. If you block them they wont even be able to find you on there.