to not be happy about bank assuming i want contactless card.

[HeIenaDove]

The long number on the front of the card is different apart from the first five numbers with no explanation as to why.

Im assuming it can still be used as chip and pin and to withdraw money from the ATM as well.

Does not say anything to confirm this in the info leaflet provided. Having read a thread from last year im not too sure i would be happy with contactless.

You can just use it normally OP.

There is a how to online showing how to disable the contactless bit if you want. Just need a pair of sharp scissors.

Yanbu. My bank won't let me opt out but say I will be liable if it is stolen and used. How is that fair?

@AllergicToAMop I get what you're saying. But I've seen it in black and white. On statements. On banking systems.

They often aim for gift cards. Anything up to £29.99 and I can honestly tell you you're being extremely extremely generous with minutes per transaction. Organised fraud (organised because of the sheer volume of people I've known to be involved), 30 minutes could equal 30 transactions. Depending on the speed involved.

And what if you don't notice your card missing. What if it's a card you've ordered and it's gone AWOL in the post. Its 3-5 working days for most card deliveries. So you may not know it's been delivered yet.
That gives fraudsters a few days head start.
Oh and contactless not always being stopped when the card is blocked.. allowing them to continue with ease.

But you can't use a brand new card for a contactless purchase until you have used it for a chip and pin purchase first so how would an intercepted card be used for contactless fraud?

Its 3-5 working days for most card deliveries.

Usually you have to chip and pin to active the contactless

You're not obliged to use contactless just because your card has that ability so I'm not sure what your issue is?

@TryingToBeBold can't speak for all banks, but mine you can't use a new card for contactless until it's been used with the PIN first. So a card intercepted in the post wouldn't be able to be used in that way.

@Isabellerossignol

Great point.
PIN can often be sent with the card. Requested once the card is recieved.

Flats. External Mailboxes. Corrupt staff(it happens everywhere).
Once the card is recieved. Fraudsters have your name. Card number. Address.
Register the card for online banking.
View PIN online or listen to PIN by calling and passing security as you (a lot of banks allow this facility so you dont have to wait another 3-5 days for a paper copy of the PIN).

You're not obliged to use contactless just because your card has that ability so I'm not sure what your issue is?
Because even if you don't use it, a thief could!

@snowybaubles @DanielRicciardosSmile

See above.

And that's not applicable should someone manage to steal your card.

I honestly am not exaggerating. And my aim isnt to scare anyone. But education and vigilance is important in stopping things like that from happening.

My bank won't let me opt out but say I will be liable if it is stolen and used. How is that fair?

Surely that only applies if you have been negligent, such as lending your card to a third party? And even then, the onus is on the bank to prove you were at fault, not on you to prove that you aren't. You aren't liable if you have reported it lost or stolen.

My purse was nicked two years ago (from the car which we’d accidentally not locked). It was in the early hours of the morning and they used it for 4 or 5 contactless transactions at 3am before it ran out of cash. Luckily it was a few days before payday and there was only about £120 in the account. I got a text at 4am to ask if I had been making transactions in a dodgy garage nearby. The bank froze the payments but took 10 days to refund me.

PIN can often be sent with the card

I have honestly never heard of a pin number being sent along with a card. I've only ever had a pin arrive a few days before a card and always in a very anonymous envelope that doesn't have the bank's name on the outside. That way a card isn't intercepted first and the person then knows to look out for a pin coming a few days later.

I worked in a bank 20 years ago and even back then it was standard that the pin was sent first. Long before contactless had been thought of.

I did not know that @Ontheboardwalk, I stand corrected.

That said I never use cash so never really use an ATM.

@TryingToBeBold and i will add employers refusing to provide a safe lockable place to store handbags to your list.

I don't see how being able to spend £30 without using your PIN is more secure than having to use your PIN but I went for the contactless card in the end.

Because if you're shoulder surfed putting your PIN and they get hold of your card, they can empty your account much quicker than they could with contactless.

@TryingToBeBold If a fraudster has gone to all the trouble of getting hold of your PIN, they're not going to waste time with contactless purchases, they're going fast for high end goods for quick resale and cash.

Back in the 90s I had my purse stolen and they went to Victoria Wines and spent £100s because they used old style paper machines for card transactions. Far less secure.

I’ve had fraudulent activity on my cards twice since then. One was stopped by my bank directly. One I noticed because my card sends me a message every time I make a transaction. I call the card company and stopped it.

I’ve never had my card used fraudulently through contactless.

@TryingToBeBold I understand, I’ve got a fraud and financial crime background.
Current account £100k in the red with no overdraft 😱 seen many!

You’re about 5 years too late if you want non-contactless cards to be the default, they’re issued as standard now (unless your accounts are poorly managed).

The first time you use contactless, you need to activate it by entering your pin. So if you never try to use contactless, you won’t actually activate it so a thief cannot fraudulently use your card.

Banks also monitor contactless transactions with your standard account usage. This means that transactions out of the ordinary will trigger their algorithm, so they will ask for the pin or block your card until you verify that you are the one using the card. Think someone using your contactless 100 miles away, or using it at shops you don’t frequent etc.

For the most part, if someone has fraudulently used your contactless your bank will refund you. However they may investigate first, this could include requesting CCTV of the transaction eg in a shop, which will verify your version of events.

@BeBraveAndBeKind

Yes that's also true. But Chip and PIN fraud (although it still happens), has way way more measures in place to be stopped a lot quicker (not to mention CCTV). Contacless times can be very inaccurate and will tend to reflect the time the card machine dialled out for the PIN transaction that followed.

17:52isabellerossignol

@isabellerossignol

Tag fail!

Ive seen both cards and PINs intercepted.
Normally card sent first in the business I worked for.
Doesnt rule out the online banking registered and viewing the PIN being viewed online (or listened to over the phone if you have easily been impersonated and they managed to pass security).

@Sexnotgender thank you! It's a dark dark world isnt it and I think people would be less.. trusting if they saw what we saw!

My 3 debit cards and 2 credit cards have been contactless since 2014/5 - my cards have never been fraudulently used, I have lost my purse once in that timeframe.

Having said that, I wouldn’t mind my cards not being contactless as I tend to use Apple Pay for everything. Only really use my card’s contactless for the underground from time to time. Other than that, I’d be happy to enter my pin for physical card purchases and just use Apple Pay for contactless