To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

Mumdom, I doubt that many working class kids went to university in the 1980s but, in any event, university has been a big con for many - and that is down to Blair's government.

In the past there were apprenticeships, day release training etc. Companies had to train their staff. Then, suddenly, there was a flow of already trained workers coming from Europe who were cheaper and more vulnerable, hence more biddable.

And as for those spouting the idea that Northerners are cap doffers - Jeez, clearly they've never been north of the Watford Gap!

Just Google Sports Direct in Shirebrook.

@RoRosmama
Feck sake. You do realise how silly you now look having copied and pasted the fake news created by the Daily Mail to smear Jeremy Corbyn. It’s a shame you voted basing your decision on made up lies.

You probably won’t bother reading this link but if you have any integrity then I urge you to read it.
www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-is-the-most-smeared-politician-in-history/18/07/

After Brexit we also need to look at the broader aspects of our constitution: the relationship between the Government, Parliament and the courts; the functioning of the Royal Prerogative; the role of the House of Lords; and access to justice for ordinary people. The ability of our security services to defend us against terrorism and organised crime is critical. We will update the Human Rights Act and administrative law to ensure that there is a proper balance between the rights of individuals, our vital national security and effective government

This should be terrifying. Presumably most Tory voters either didn’t read it or didn’t understand it. This, coupled with the Henry VII clause already enacted, gives Johnson unprecedented power within our fragile democracy. And Johnson is already proven to be a liar who will not allow himself to be held to account.

I have always understood Turkeys voting for Christmas refers to ignorance of consequence, which is entirely different from stupidity.

And a PP is right to say that Merseyside staying red is because we will not buy, and therefore do not read, the S*n’s propaganda.

StormzysHat

For 3 years there have been thread after thread in similar veins to this one.

Each one has spectacularly failed.

Maybe try to open a debate with a purposeful question or some reflective views and not insult those that vote a different way to you.

I for one would be interested to see how it goes from there.

But I suspect that it wouldn't be long before the insults started and they have generally been said from those that allegedly care.

The election results don't necessarily show that people want brexit though. There were more votes for anti-brexit parties, neither of these parties won because the votes are split between them all.

RoRosama I think your post sums up what baffles me about Tory attitudes to BJ. You say he's "a bit of a rascal, bends the truth, a bit posh". It's so, so much more than that. I could equally cut and paste streams of quotes and actions of his.

I see many labour supporters criticising JC and discussing his views negatively as well as positively. But all I ever see from Tory voters about BJ is views like yours. Or as someone else said "he's joking, he doesn't really mean it". It reminds me of the atrocious things Trump comes out with, but he never seems to lose his massive fan base. I can't help starting to believe that some people think racist/homophobic/sexist "jokes" are ok and those of us who find it offensive should just lighten up and get over it.

I have always thought most of those who might have voted labour couldn't care much about the IRA issues, anti-semitism, Palestine, gender self declaration, even climate change. They are not even too worried about student loans (half of teenagers don't go to university anyway).

Intsead they want as someone said above better long term full time jobs where they live. Labour did not concentrate on those issues enough.

The fact BJ and Corbyn are white old men who went to private school and live in London and are both on their 2nd or third marriage is not particularly an issue for most people - it just shows they have feet of clay like most people do.

@ThisTurkeysNot4Christmas

Hellooo! Too right coal mining wasn't a job for life. So many coal miners got blown up, leaving widows having to work several jobs to bring up their large families. 6 year olds were sent to work underground 😳

Lots of coal miners were glad the pits were closed - who can blame them? Many of them found alternative employment. Most (who survived) were compensated for loss of earnings.

In those days there was definately a need for Labour Trade Unions. Nowadays everyone who voted Labour are either those who carry on the family tradition of voting Labour (even though that is thankfully no longer needed) or those who don't work and think Labour will give, give, give. Where do Labour voters think the money for their freebies come from?

The majority of workers have to pay a third of their wages in tax to benefit those who don't work. Nobody wants their hard earned wages to decrease any more.

Labour voters seem to think everyone who works are rich. Not true! Too many people who work are less well off than those who claim benefits. JC shit his nest by inviting votes based on freebies for all. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will know that isn't possible and if he was to carry out the nonsense he proposed they will be expected to pay for it.

There was once a need for the Labour party, when people genuinely faced hard times, through no fault of their own. Now everyone either works for a living or are given benefits, in line with a working wage - regardless of which party is in power.

Anyone who wants a better lifestyle are free to work for it, without having their wages docked to line the pockets of those who don't want to work. Everyone can choose their lifestyle. We live in the UK. There are plenty of opportunities for those who want it and are determined to provide for the families they chose to have. Nobody objects to helping out those who genuinely cannot work. That was what the benefits system was set up for. Nobody wants to pay for those who don't want to work and are fleecing the benefits system. We all know plenty of those.

Those who think Labour will provide the lifestyle they desire need to wake up.

No child needs to be without a warm coat and food in his/her belly nowadays. Their parents are entitled to money to house, feed and clothe them.

Nobody can say they can't afford a coat for their child. The high street is full of charity shops. Everyone, it seems, can afford broadband. Maybe they should look at buying their child a coat from the many FB marketplace ads. £2 for a hardly worn coat.

Some people want the moon on a stick, and even that won't be good enough.

It seems that those who work live within their means. Those who don't demand the impossible.

Rich and poor turkeys voted for Christmas. Stop trying to blame Brexit on the working class. Nobody believes it. I live in a poor inner city which voted remain and Labour.

I am fed up of the scapegoating that goes on in this country. No wonder the country is so dysfunctional. The myth that the working class is to blame for Brexit is being spread so they can remove every bit of support - the NHS, free education, public services, benefits etc - you know the stuff we all pay our taxes for, the stuff decent societies can't do without.

@trewser I have now read your suggested article by Janice Turner in the Times. I can see that the main points she makes are aligned with many of the points on this thread. So through this thread I am beginning to appreciate how some Conservative voters, in circumstances different to the working class voters in areas of high deprivation is London for example, could have come to see Corbyn's failures as more significant than Johnson's when weighing up their decision.

Her last paragraph was a bit odd I thought. She started talking about how Boris doesn't fit in the working class northern communities but didn't go any further into that point.

One thing I disagreed with in her article was labelling people lefty remoaners etc. I felt that was doing exactly what she criticised the Labour Party of doing.

@GCAcademic
What is being forgotten here is that the Tories did not receive that many more votes than they did in 2017. It was in the 13 millions in both elections

You're wrong.

The reason they received the same amount of votes more or less was that in the south many people swaped from Conservative to Lib Dems.

In the north, the gap was almost closed between Labour and the Tories in a way it never has been.

In one constituency, the Labour candidate lost 12K votes and there were only 3K votes between them and the Tories- and 6K voted went to the Brexit party.

It was a swing to the Tories of almost 20% in that constituency.

You need to do more research :)

@RoRosmama

Excellent post

Oh and FYI constantly calling people racist just because we don't agree with mass uncontrolled gimme-gration does you no favours either.

One thing I disagreed with in her article was labelling people lefty remoaners etc

Oh the irony!

You started this thread.

Twitter is full of tweets from lefties who cannot accept they lost.

Union support will go next if labour doesn't change. The stupid, uneducated Northerners may not want their hard earned cash going to a party that doesn't support or even like them anymore.

"After Brexit we also need to look at the broader aspects of our constitution: the relationship between the Government, Parliament and the courts; the functioning of the Royal Prerogative; the role of the House of Lords; and access to justice for ordinary people. The ability of our security services to defend us against terrorism and organised crime is critical. We will update the Human Rights Act and administrative law to ensure that there is a proper balance between the rights of individuals, our vital national security and effective government"

This should be terrifying. Presumably most Tory voters either didn’t read it or didn’t understand it. This, coupled with the Henry VII clause already enacted, gives Johnson unprecedented power within our fragile democracy. And Johnson is already proven to be a liar who will not allow himself to be held to account.

I have always understood Turkeys voting for Christmas refers to ignorance of consequence, which is entirely different from stupidity.

^^ this is very important.

Yes, can any Tory voters explain what happened here? Again, like Yellowhammer, was this another piece of information that got lost in the campaign? Why did this not ring alarm bells?

@RoRosmama Just wondering, then you even bother to fact-check that list before you copy/pasted it from the ultra far right extremist site you obviously got it from? Do you actually spend any time at all considering the clearly irrational claims made on that hoax list, and check them out, or do you mindlessly believe every fake news you read from the ultra far right extremist sites? Wouldn't it be wise to actually think for yourself and research, and not just gullibly believe such rubbish?

@BoneyBackJefferson we've already covered this but you clearly haven't RTFT. I've already stated that I don't think insults or over-simplified stereotypes should be hurled. I'm not going to repeat myself again. Read my updates if you do actually care but please don't just come on to try and shut people up because they hold differing views to you.

MN is a bit of an echo chamber re people getting offended over actually saucy, jokey comments. That’s the thing. Most people on the street don’t mind a bit of banter, especially by a JOURNALIST. Adds some colour. It’s very fucking boring having the serially offended whining on about Boris making comments about the volleyball players and the like. Men down the pub say this sort of thing - they aren’t going to understand why people (on MN, mainly) are frothing at the chops about these types of comments.

I don’t give a shit what people think of me but I will happily tell you I find him amusing and I like his jokes! I also think he did an excellent job as mayor when I was living in London.

@TheGardenFairy I agree 100%.

What I despise at the far left is they assert that they support the 'workers'.

Well what do they call the people who get up at 6am, catch a train at 7 and return home at 7pm? Are they not workers too? I've friends and family who work 60-70 hour weeks , in managerial jobs. 50% of their income goes to help others. Or is Labour only for the unemployed or manual workers? Those jobs are in decline, so Labour are on a hiding to nothing.

They are finished.

@SarahNade

Calling the daily mail “ultra-far right” is ridiculous. It’s right leaning, yes, it’s not “Das Reich” though.

Everyone can choose their lifestyle

Yes of course they can. Everyone has the skills to earn above the minimum wage. Those who are disabled or in poor health have chosen to be so, and in any case there is extensive support availabel to enable them to live normal and fulfilling lives. Everyone who has SEND or disabled children or other relatives picked that option. Victims of domestic violence chose their abuser and are never trapped or murdered.

FFS.

The vote is currently 48% vs 52% - how ironic

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