To think that Turkeys Voted for Christmas?

[StormzysHat]

NC. This could appear goady but honestly it's a genuine confusion to me.

According to what we are led to believe by the media / some people on MN, "northerners" (as a generic group) voted for Conservatives because they are disadvantaged and fed up with the north south divide among other reasons.

How come disadvantaged Londoners voted Labour? I work in support sector and many people in my care will be in shelters this Christmas, and others rely on food banks. They were saddened and disheartened by Labour's loss and felt the Conservatives in no way represent them. This is on top of the Tory devised hostile environment and Windrush scandal making peoples' lives hell.

I understand that people are / have been pissed off and wanted to have their voices heard. But WHY would the very communities ravaged by the Tories in the 80's vote for them?

Why is it that Corbyn who lives in a very modest way, in Upper Holloway and who went to grammar school is seen as less acceptable than an old Etonian millionaire proven liar? How can Boris Jonson be seen as someone who can help the north south divide or to champion the working class FFS??

I completely accept Corbyn's leadership has been poor and don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan. BUT, given the alternative, I can't understand HOW working class people could vote for Johnson?

AIBU to think the turkeys just voted for Christmas?

oooh @TheGardenFairy I've found my soulmate! Hellooooo!

And all this crap that Thatcher closed down the mines. They had to close as they were unproductive.

My school was half a mile from one pit, my home was 1 mile from another, there was an open cast mine 800 yards from my front door.

They were closed because they were unproductive. This was down to poor (nationalised) management.

You cannot use working people's taxes to continually bail out unproductive and unprofitable industries.

My dad used to visit the steel works- British Steel- in the north as part of his job. He told us about people sitting around all day with nothing to do. But they were being paid for a full day's work.

But these people felt they had a right to a job, regardless of whether they could be propped up by other working people's taxes.

There is a myth about the north, the mines and what happened. I lived there and through it. My peers at school had dads down the pit.

Being a miner was not a job for life, nor was being in the shipyards, or at British Steel.

The venom that is held in some parts of the north about this, aimed at Tories is ridiculous.

The last mine closed decades back. It's time to move on.

@sarahnade

Openly disparaging about the queen is fucking stupid, yes, in a country with a monarchy. It’s also disrespectful and arrogant.

Thank goodness I'm not a politician!

Agree with you on that

+Awwlookatmybabyspider*
If you voted Tory then fuck you

I think this meme accurately reflects my response.

I suspect I'm not alone among Tory voters in saying that the hysterical wailing by Labour voters has been fascinating to observe. To be honest, if the Conservatives had been as comprehensively wiped out as Labour in this election, I would probably had preferred to discuss with my fellow Conservatives why we had failed so badly and what changes needed to be made in the future. That would make far more sense than the repetitive demonisation and infantile name calling of the opposition party. I simply do not understand what they think it will achieve. As my meme clearly demonstrates, we seriously don't give a fuck what you think of us and your tirades are irrelevant.

I suspect a lot of Labour supporters thought a Labour win would mean free money for them - I'm sure they would have been disappointed as it's pretty certain that Corbyn would have led this country into a financial shithole of epic proportions.

So why don't you do something constructive like join your local Labour Party and be a part of taking your party forward?

"Magic Grandpa persona of Corbyn?"
Who the hell thought that?!!

A lot of people think “stupid” and “poorly educated” are interchangeable, and they really aren’t.

Deprived parts of the UK are full of poorly educated people who leave school with few GCSEs and no skills, so it’s a bit much to expect them to have prescient views on the economy or Irish foreign policy and how it might affect our own.

I have been really engaged in this campaign and I have learnt that the vast majority are not interested in policy, they can only abdorb a few facts which they do not investigate the truth of, they discuss with peoplle with the same opinions so the myths and media become self-fulfilling. Boris had the right idea with his snappy catchphrases and simplistic adverts.

Good post. That’s why populist regimes work well in the short term.

In the long term they bring pain, shame and humiliation on the whole country. And the people who voted for pretend they didn’t.

People want their Brexit. That's why they voted as they did.

I have to wonder though who they will blame for their community issues once they can no longer blame the EU.

I've found some of the posts on here (once you sift through the vitriol) quite interesting in explaining why people think such a big shift in voting happened.

What I've yet to see is anyone explaining how Boris gets away with his vile comments (calling gay men "bumboys", referring to children of single mothers "ill-raised, aggressive and ignorant", Muslim women looking like "bank robbers" and "letterboxes", black people "flag waving picaninnies", "oriental people have bigger brains and higher iq's, black people are at the other pole", women go to university to "find men to marry"...... I mean the list goes on and on. )

I see people saying "but he delivered milk and pies and people like him". I've not read one comment saying "yes what he says is vile, but they pin their hopes on what they'll do for the economy." NOT ONE Tory voter anywhere (I don't mean just on Mumsnet) has mentioned why they think this stuff he says is ok. Do people just not read it? Or do they think it's ok because he's "likeable". I just don't find that attitude likeable full stop. I would NEVER include someone with those attitudes in my circle of friends. I don't think I could even shake his hand. I don't think I'll ever understand it.

Nandy has zero chance of becoming leader as she’s also divisive but in the other direction. Instead of focusing on improvements which can be made in Wigan, she bleats on about ‘London’ as though the people of London have been actively crushing the people of Wigan. What she should admit is that it’s the politicians, of which she is one, who have been letting the people of Wigan down. It just happens that Parliament is where they all work and it’s based in the capital city. It’s not the fault of ‘London’ nor Londoners.

All of this anti-London stuff does not heal the divide because we know that London is no longer just a geographical area it now equals ‘liberal’, ‘rich’, ‘elite, ‘diversity’, ‘experts’, ‘educated’ basically everyone who isn’t a Northern white working class person.

Promoting further divisiveness and creating scapegoats will not win or work. Parties win by promoting positivity and belief. That’s what Blair did with his ‘things can only get better’ stuff.

Labour need a leader who is positive, doesn’t treat people as victims. It should make them believe they are part of a winning team.

My take

• red wall vote massively driven by understandable rejection of corbyn leadership and desire for brexit.

What will actually happen as a consequence

• some random investment in infrastructure in the north
• some rebalancing to take money from very poor Londoners to very poor northerners
• most money staying with the rich and middle class

And a lot of blaming of scapegoats when the government doesn’t deliver
Best model to think of is Hungary under orban or trump both of which are run by populist nationalists as we now are

And whoever said” The Conservative party has always supported the less fortunate in society” wake up and smell the coffee
All the tories I know want to reduce their tax bill - and then they donate a little to charities to make themselves feel good. That won’t repair schools, support the NHS or child mental health services
But if you want to believe that feel free - l

The last mines closed in the late 1980s but few people affected seemed to prepare their kids for that.

I can count on the fingers of one hand how many of my cohort from school graduated from university.

My school had no sixth form because there were so few kids in the borough who wanted (or could) sit A Levels.

The IFS pointed out that Labour's manifesto had little in the way of policies targeted at poor working families - more giveaways to the unemployed.

Also:
Removing university tuition fees - would mainly benefit the middle classes plus ethnic minorities in London - disadvantaged, white British pupils are less likely to go on to further education.

Waspi women - the IFS point out that the compensation funds would mainly go to women who were 'relatively well off'.

1/3 reduction in rail fares - would mainly benefit London commuters and other large cities- paid for out of vehicle excise duty - therefore disproportionately affecting poorer car drivers whose tax wouldn't be spent on road upkeep.

I have learnt that the vast majority are not interested in policy, they can only abdorb a few facts which they do not investigate the truth of, they discuss with peoplle with the same opinions so the myths and media become self-fulfilling.

That's true, look at some of the repeated posts in the run up to the election on here. NHS will be sold off, Fully costed manifesto.

The people who are having trouble absorbing facts are people like the OP and others calling everyone else wrong for voting differently.

This paternalistic attitude from some on the left that they know better is what also contributed to yet another loss for Corbyn and Momentum, the self reflection lasted no more than half an hour on friday. A sure sign of true intellects.

Ffs

Get over it .

And we all know Labour shut more mines, than the Tories

the elephant in the room is immigration.

This is true.
Whilst freedom of movement has benefitted the country as a whole, some people and communities have personally lost out, or believe that they have. And they feel ignored by the Left who welcome immigration, as per their more urban liberal arm, and shut down any contrary discussion as racist.

My only understanding of it would be the mainstream media brainwashing
Also some people are racist and enjoyed Johnson’s Racist comments

Thick, racist and brainwashed. That about cover it?

The mould My hometown folks are not racist in themselves (insofar as I’m aware as a white person) but they do DESPERATELY want to believe the anti-immigrant rhetoric they’re being fed.

The Tories despise the poor so Why do the poor adore them so much.
I don’t understand

Maybe the Tories despise that people are poor and the poor are sick and tired of being poor and would like better jobs. People are showing optimism by voting Tory, whereas Corbyn voters maybe would like better food banks.

Hi silverysurfer
Enjoy your victory
You are right that the opponents to Johnson and the 52 per cent of voters who didn’t vote for him need to regroup
As for you:
You are presumably very affluent and never use public services, come from a traditional English white middle class background and all your friends are the same
You want to live in an authoritatively state with no checks and balances

If any of those are not true you are going to be very very disappointed because in shock news

• Johnson doesn’t given a shit about any but the rich and thinks most people

Are cornflakes to be squished

• he really is racist (see 20 years of comments)
• and he has complete contempt for UK institutions

Look at Hungary - where we are heading ... Of course that may well be your ideal!

So....the consensus seems to be....

No to women (no woman clever enough to lead (but they could maybe be deputys),

No to stupid uneducated Northerners (this seems to includeThe Midlands and anywhere else on the map people from London can't find)

Yes to white middle class / upper class men who live and work in London (which is now the center of the universe) no-one else need apply.

Great message guys.....

The governments own yellowhammer docs stated that the poorest communities would be disproportionately hardest hit by Brexit.

Given the govt themselves said that, yanbu OP.