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AIBU?

London Independence

200 replies

LearningEveryDay19 · 14/12/2019 22:03

The majority of London voted Labour - principalfish.co.uk/electionmaps/?map=election2019

The majority of London voted Remain - principalfish.co.uk/electionmaps/brexit.html

AIBU in suggesting that London should have a referendum on whether to become an independent city state, in order to remain in the EU?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

618 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
71%
You are NOT being unreasonable
29%
Midgey91 · 16/12/2019 22:49

I wouldn't class the Cotswold or Lake District as "random towns" 😂. I'm talking about your average town, not areas of natural beauty etc that are known for holidays....

I'm guessing you have never visited London? As surely you are encouraging government to invest there by contributing to the local economy.

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Midgey91 · 16/12/2019 23:07

@trainspottingwelsh you do realise that London is facing similar crices that the rest of the country is? There is a huge shortage of police officers and we are facing a knife crime epidemic, the waiting time in hospitals is just as long, same goes for GP wait times, there are thousands of children in under funded schools, thousands of families needing to use food banks, thousands of homeless people, thousands of people unable to pay their bills because rent is so high and council housing list go on for miles.

You do realise infrastructure isn't just public transport?

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TakeMe2Insanity · 16/12/2019 23:11

Yes please we clearly vote and think differently to the rest of England.

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IdiotInDisguise · 16/12/2019 23:15

Honestly... wasn’t Boris himself who first floated the idea of London’s independence? He thought the city was being pulled back by the rest of country.

Be careful with what you wish for...

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TrainspottingWelsh · 16/12/2019 23:18

Might surprise you but the Lake District and Cotswolds had farming in the past, they weren't specially commissioned as holiday destinations for Londoners.

Not if I can help it. Us country bumpkins get scared of the witchcraft that switches the gaslights on by magic and shit so we stay in our barns.

We already contribute to London. We're net contributors, as are many of our colleagues, friends and neighbours, so we don't get much choice about contributing to central funding, otherwise known as London's private purse. We also use many national and international companies within the uk, same as anyone, and regardless of where we use them, that counts towards London's supposedly greater contribution to the economy.

Burning question is whether it's arrogance or ignorance you are posting from.

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nancy75 · 16/12/2019 23:20

Give Boris a week & we’ll be hearing ‘get Lexit done’ (Boris if you steal my slogan you’ll have to pay me Xmas Grin)

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TrainspottingWelsh · 16/12/2019 23:35

Midgey you truly are clueless.

If London schools are underfunded what do you call everywhere else with far less per head?

It isn't just waiting times, again displaying your clueless bubble. Have you any idea just how hard physically travelling to appointments can be for those outside cities? Just having a rural gp within a reasonable drive as we can is something other areas would love to have.

London poverty is not comparable to other parts of the uk. If you're poor in London, you still have a shit load on your doorstep, from cheap transport, discount supermarkets, libraries, Jobcentre's, services, further education, training and everything else. Coastal and rural areas, and even deprived towns don't. You can find a job without a car in London, and live a decent quality of life. In other places it's essential, and in times of poverty is the last thing to go because it's the only way out of poverty.

When they're calculating benefits they allow for higher London housing, but don't allow for the extra costs of living away from all those things a poor Londoner takes for granted.

You really haven't got a clue.

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Namenic · 17/12/2019 01:33

@TrainspottingWelsh - I don’t get the bit about how London is being subsidised by the rest of the country.

Due to the differences in industries there are more higher rate tax payers in London because there are more international companies etc. Those companies could move out of London and into other countries which would reduce employment and money for the govt.

More is spent on London, but I think the money generated there is higher than the money spent? There are some parts of the uk where more money is spent than generated.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 17/12/2019 03:06

Anyone that can try and justify London's transport funding clearly hasn't got the faintest idea about the rest of the uk.

I didn't own a car when I lived for years in Liverpool, or the Midlands. I've lived out of London for almost as long as in it. And in a few different countries. So no, Londoners do travel outside the M25 Hmm

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notmuchtooffer · 17/12/2019 06:04

Pretty sure that being homeless in London is as bad as being homeless elsewhere.

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notmuchtooffer · 17/12/2019 06:10

Please give it a rest daft remaniacs! and it’s okay to call people this because...

Boris thinks we now have to heal the rift Confused. The damage the last three years and people like he himself have wrought is irreparable.

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 17/12/2019 06:13

I'm guessing you have never visited London?

I grew up in zone 2.

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 17/12/2019 06:20

London generates approx 30% of the UKs GDP. There is more money in London because there is more industry here such as banks and insurance companies to name a few

And why do you think this is? Why do you think job have become increasingly centralised in London, and continue to do so? What part do you think the additional infrastructure investment London receives plays in this?

Seriously, engage your brain a bit and think critically for a few seconds! London hasn't got those things by magic, or just because it's the capital. Years of political decision making has had a massive impact on the economic geography of the UK.

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HopeItComesWithBatteries · 17/12/2019 06:27

More goady nonsense. Go away.

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 17/12/2019 06:27

areas of natural beauty that are known for holidays

Otherwise known as communities that people live and work in.

For the last 10 years I've lived in both cities and rural areas (nowhere near London) that attract tourism. Funnily enough, the tourism didn't change the fact that those areas are seriously deprived of government investment in things that would strengthen our local economy. (The idea that tourist areas all get extra investment is laughable). It also didn't change the fact that people in these areas still need decen jobs, transport etc. We're not just a holiday camp for Londoners you know!

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CupoTeap · 17/12/2019 06:35

Funnest thing I've read

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 17/12/2019 06:52

I'll put it another way....

There are many countries in the World (Germany is an example, but by no means the only one) where the capital city is nowhere near as dominant as London is in the UK, and where business HQs/jobs/infrastructure investment are more evenly spread than in the UK.

Why do you think this is? What are they doing differently, and what have they done differently for the last 50 years?

It doesn't take much brainpower to twig that (a) businesses will invest where it benefits them to do so, and (b) government investment and policy decisions can have a significant impact on those business decisions.

The fact that London is now the only area which can return an immediate 'surplus' on an investment (although the point about where profits are generated vs where they are reported stands), is because of the last 50 years of decision making by our government. It's a vicious cycle, and more investment in London alone will not break it - it only fuels the fire.

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Namenic · 17/12/2019 07:27

Companies are free to base themselves outside London. There are benefits like cheaper office rental and housing for workers. But there may be fewer people with specific skills, poorer infrastructure.

It requires investment. The question is - where is the money for this investment going to come from? In the next few years I think brexit will take time and money and cause a negative economic impact (though some companies that export will do better). I think people in leave voting areas have shot themselves in the foot as there will be less money to upgrade stuff. I also don’t think tories are going to quit The PFI method of investment which will Unfortunately continue to bleed public services.

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MsJaneAusten · 17/12/2019 07:29

I live in the Lake District. I used to live in London. I voted remain, along with the majority of people in my constituency. We have a Lib Dem MP. We have tourists, plenty of them. We also have a shit travel infrastructure, no A&E at all and schools that get around £2500 less per pupil per year than those in London. Stop with the divisive shit. We need to ensure that all services are properly funded, that all people feel properly represented, regardless of where in the country they are.

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 17/12/2019 07:39

Well said MrsJane

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Namenic · 17/12/2019 07:51

The important thing will be to ensure people with medical issues - particularly those on meds with European supply chain are not interrupted; it continues to be safe in NI; and the price of basic goods (eg food, electricity, shelter) does not rise.

Hopefully all parties can agree on that.

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user1497207191 · 17/12/2019 19:32

The damage the last three years and people like he himself have wrought is irreparable.

What about the damage caused to the regions over the last 20 years?? It's not a recent thing. Brexit was part of the consequence of London Centricity, not the cause of current problems, most of which existed long before the referendum.

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user1497207191 · 17/12/2019 19:35

I think people in leave voting areas have shot themselves in the foot as there will be less money to upgrade stuff.

Bugger all was being spent on improvements and upgrades anyway for the last 20 years - all the while London was spending millions/billions on itself. London get new train lines, new trains - Northern regions are still running 40 year old buses on train wheels and London cast off trains. Such areas had nothing to lose - Brexit or not, they weren't getting anywhere near Londoners.

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user1497207191 · 17/12/2019 19:40

London generates approx 30% of the UKs GDP. There is more money in London because there is more industry here such as banks and insurance companies to name a few

But their customers are from all over the UK. Firms have relocated to London. Most university work placements are in London. I remember when banks and insurance companies had regional offices, there were even head offices in Northern towns and cities. You can't just say London generates the profit because it doesn't - profit made by banks, supermarkets, telecoms & power firms from work done, customers, and staff all over the UK is wrongly counted as being London derived when it isn't. Take, a random supermarket, Sainsbury, because it's HO is London, the figures will show the profits as being London derived. However if it was moved to say, Manchester then the profits would get counted as Manchester.

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Greydove28 · 17/12/2019 20:04

Wow! I've read it all now. I commute into London from a Northern city for work. One thing that really struck me was that Londoners think London is the centre of the Universe and how snobby they can be towards non locals. All they care about is London, London, London. Has it occurred to you OP that other cities and towns voted Labour. Should they be independent too? Jeez I really have seen it all now. Absurd!

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