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AIBU?

London Independence

200 replies

LearningEveryDay19 · 14/12/2019 22:03

The majority of London voted Labour - principalfish.co.uk/electionmaps/?map=election2019

The majority of London voted Remain - principalfish.co.uk/electionmaps/brexit.html

AIBU in suggesting that London should have a referendum on whether to become an independent city state, in order to remain in the EU?

OP posts:
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Am I being unreasonable?

618 votes. Final results.

POLL
You are being unreasonable
71%
You are NOT being unreasonable
29%
Hester54 · 15/12/2019 22:56

Why do most of London vote Labour?

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HomelessnessIsABigIssue · 15/12/2019 22:57
Hmm
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MsJaneAusten · 15/12/2019 22:58

(To be clear, I don't object to London schools being properly funded. I just think other schools should be properly funded too!)

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Coatzillaclaus · 15/12/2019 23:04

Hmmm - well in my experience a large part of the rest of the country are quite standoffish with Londoners so I don’t suppose they’d miss us 🤣

What about Bristol, Brighton etc though?

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Coatzillaclaus · 15/12/2019 23:19

But more importantly you might want to consider that if the wealth and opportunity swilling around in London had been more evenly distributed around the whole country, it’s likely that more people would have seen the benefits of remaining and we might not be where we are now. So not so much as case of the rest of the country ruining things for London, as London ruining it for everyone.

So why not actually come to London like many people from other EU countries have? They’ve made lives here, pay taxes, have businesses, employ people, spend their money in the shops/cafes/restaurants.

They’re not wary of London, whereas people actually from the UK are 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Rosehip345 · 15/12/2019 23:29

This is hilarious 😂
I’m a Londoner, living up North. Like so many other PP in my position I implore Londoners to wake up and realise that there is life outside of the M25!
And no I shall not be returning, ever.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 15/12/2019 23:56

So terry can you explain the tax formulation hmrc only use for Londoners? The one where they pay a higher rate to the rest of us to explain why they deserve more back?

There are massively higher earners in London. So there's more money. Hence why London contributes so much money to the UK economy. The difference in transport funding is warranted. 9 million people need moving around efficiently. Education finding is shameful though.

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soupforbrains · 15/12/2019 23:57

@Grasspigeons I'm with you in that!

But in general what a laughable idea! Ridiculous.

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Coatzillaclaus · 16/12/2019 00:25

What’s been poignant for me with this whole Brexit fiasco is how divided the country actually is - we are truly fucked.

I moved somewhere very far from London a few years ago and can now see, in retrospect, what a narrow-minded snob I was - effectively, the polar opposite of "cosmopolitan" in my outlook.

That’s it, there’s this misconception that Londoners are snobs!

Yes, London obviously doesn’t exist in isolation, yes there is life in the rest of the country, yes we have visited other places in the country, including north of the M25.

What about the old EastEnd? How many “snobs” were there there?! Lots of us are the decedents of those lovely but most definitely not snobby people

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AGBforever · 16/12/2019 02:01

How can you not know that London pays the most for EVERYTHING???

Err because lots of things are credited to London that aren't actually generated there e.g. licenses for North Sea oil which should be credited to Aberdeen etc

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Meshy12 · 16/12/2019 02:40

London is subsidising the rest of the Uk - it’s the only city in the Uk that is making a net contribution (which makes sense given its financial and services sector and high net worth residents).

But I am a Londoner and I love being part of the Uk - so no I wouldn’t want to be some independent city state like Luxembourg.

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Meshy12 · 16/12/2019 02:48

Also even given Property prices in London - that alone will give rise to more SDLt, Inheritance tax and capital gains tax (and rightly so).

So of course London as a city with almost 9 million and a very high proportion of higher rate tax payers will be paying substantially more tax per person than other areas of the country.

But that doesn’t mean we should be separate - we are all one country and need to heal our divisions and move forward.

Lack of investment elsewhere in the Uk is of course shameful.

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jillowarriorqueen · 16/12/2019 02:52

How. ridiculous. Not even worth discussing.

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 16/12/2019 06:03

That’s it, there’s this misconception that Londoners are snobs!

That poster was talking about herself, when she lived in London! As was I when I made a similar criticism (I grew up in London).

We are best placed to know our own experience, so it's hardly a misconception!

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 16/12/2019 06:09

Hmmm - well in my experience a large part of the rest of the country are quite standoffish with Londoners so I don’t suppose they’d miss us

What about Bristol, Brighton etc though?

It's really, really telling that you've only named southern Remain/Labour cities like Bristol and Brighton in your 'what about'.

When people say that Londoners are ignorant about the rest of the country, and the north in particular, this is the sort of thing that adds fuel to it. Like a pp said, this blinkered approach is the opposite of cosmopolitan.

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 16/12/2019 06:15

Basically, you see Brighton and Bristol as 'people like us', but not Liverpool etc. Have a think about why that might be.

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 16/12/2019 06:16

It's so depressing that 26% think the OP isn't being unreasonable....

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horse4course · 16/12/2019 06:25

The rest of the country does subsidise London.

The whole financial system is set up to funnel money to London. I remember reading an article about it.

Eg PFI loans were meant to develop local amenities but ended up with poor regions paying massive interest to London companies.

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notmuchtooffer · 16/12/2019 06:40

Of course not possible or tenable, but I can relate to the sentiment, as I am sure other remain and Labour voting cities can. Blue leave areas are pressing in on us, and I am grateful I live where I live.

Very sad that we now have a very right wing government, and that we are leaving the EU. Both these things are a disaster IMO. So grateful that my town (London) and others resisted Boris’ propaganda. Can fully understand why Scotland would now want independence.

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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 16/12/2019 06:41
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ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 16/12/2019 07:17

There are massively higher earners in London. So there's more money.

It never fails to amaze me that people will uncritically say this sort of thing to justify the additional investment directed at London, without ever stopping to ask themselves why there is more money in London.

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Coatzillaclaus · 16/12/2019 08:32

Basically, you see Brighton and Bristol as 'people like us', but not Liverpool etc. Have a think about why that might be.

Nope it’s purely coincidental as i have links with those places (maybe something to do with being closer)...In fact just after posted I wished wished I could have changed it to include Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle.

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Coatzillaclaus · 16/12/2019 08:35

Receptacle - Actually maybe it’s more of a city/rural divide, let’s please not make it about north/south

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backinthebox · 16/12/2019 08:42

For the second time in the last couple of days I’m finding myself wondering what kind of alternative dimension MN has fallen into. But back to the OP - #LearningEveryDay19 only some kind of political imbecile wouldn’t be able to see why a capital city can’t just ditch the rest of it’s country. Every person in the UK is entitled to their say and just because you didn’t like the result you can’t just flounce out.

To those wittering on about whether London subsidises the rest of the UK or vice versus - there are bound to be differences in the income, expenditure, needs, lifestyles and, well, everything if you compare a London finance worker with a Yorkshire farmer. But farmers need banks and bankers need food, so even though one brings more money in than the other they are interdependent, and that is how a civilised country works. It’s anlot more complicated than that, but anyone with half a brain would be able to see that.

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notmuchtooffer · 16/12/2019 08:48

Definitely a rural/city divide rather than a North/South one IMO.

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