AIBU that an independent Scotland ill have to have a hard border to ensure the rest of the UK keeps control of its borders when Scotland joins theEU

[monstiebags]

Whilst I totally agree that Scotland has the right to become independent, it seems to me that they want to push though a vote without telling the people how they expect to fund themselves, what currency they will use and what trading agreement they expect to have with the UK. I really think that these things should be made clear to the rest of the UK before they are allowed their rightful vote - A weak Scotland using our currency could drag us all down with them and a soft border would encourage the continued uncontrolled migration to England via Scotland. AIBU

Kikisparks

Apologies I do know how to link a user name properly.

I’d agree with you if Scotland was booming but I can’t support your argument when Scotland has the massive social problems it has.
From what I’ve read schools and NHS are not what they used to be
Also how can you rely on your gas income long term with global warming and the move to green energy.

It’s for these reasons I believe independence for Scotland would be a mistake for the population.

“ I’d agree with you if Scotland was booming but I can’t support your argument when Scotland has the massive social problems it has.
From what I’ve read schools and NHS are not what they used to be
Also how can you rely on your gas income long term with global warming and the move to green energy. ”

Terrible argument. The problems Scotland has exist under the status quo. Under Westminster rule.

Other independent countries with similarities to Scotland though are booming, and a lot of them do not have the resources Scotland has.

An independent Scotland in EFTA or EU will attract a massive amount of business investment which would otherwise have gone to London. And many thousands of people from England will relocate to Scotland, bringing their talents and their money with them.

@streetwisehercules. I'm half Scot. And fully in favour of Independence, hence pointing out the hypocrisy of it supposedly being alright to leave the EU for exactly the same reasons as have been given by pro-Independence supporters, but it's not OK for the Scottish people to want to do the same.

'You guys' really need to read posts more carefully when you're seeing support for Independence and a touch of sarcasm rather than saying outright it's imperialistic and racist in tone as being British Nationalism.

You're reasonable to expect a border; all countries have borders. It might even become a hard border if Scotland and the UK cannot manage a soft border via tech solutions.

However, they cannot drag another country's currency down just because they're using it. A lot of countries use the US dollar, for example. It would be for Scotland to worry if the UK had economic issues because they would be vulnerable to fluctuations in the UK pound. Their likely choices are the UK pound or the Euro. However, it's also possible they would eventually create their own currency.

I must have missed Angus McNeil being expelled for his vocal and sustained criticism of the party leadership.

These regulations were brought in in 2015 and had to be signed by new members.

I totally think they should have a say in their future

We had a say only a few years ago and opted to stay part of the UK.

I hope Boris stands by his no to a second referendum

We had a say only a few years ago and opted to stay part of the UK.

Except at the time, the government really pushed that the only way Scotland could be sure of staying in the EU was to remain in the UK. That worked out well....

“ We had a say only a few years ago and opted to stay part of the UK.”

The promises made to secure that vote have been thrown in the bin. If the Unionists has kept their word another referendum wouldn’t be remotely likely.

They are welcome to go it alone. However, THEY will have to foot the bill for the referendum, parliamentary setup costs, border controls, etc. And they should only get the same money per head as we do in England ie, not the extra they get at the moment.

I very much doubt Scottish people realize just how much extra they actually get, and I also doubt the EU would be interested in having them as members - they're too small.

Too small? Is Austria a small country? I would happily be taxes to set up all that

And I would be happy for Scotland taxes to start staying in scotland save me contributing to crossrail and hs2 that will have no benefit to Scotland

@monstiebags For issues that only affect England i.e. things that have been devolved to Wales, Scotland and NI, there is a voting system in Parliament called English votes for English laws, which means that to pass a majority of English MPs need to vote for them. This means that English laws can only change if English MPs want them to, doesn't matter what Scottish etc MPs think. So we basically do have an English Parliament, it just sits in Westminster in the same place as the UK one.

“ They are welcome to go it alone. However, THEY will have to foot the bill for the referendum, parliamentary setup costs, border controls, etc. And they should only get the same money per head as we do in England ie, not the extra they get at the moment.

I very much doubt Scottish people realize just how much extra they actually get, and I also doubt the EU would be interested in having them as members - they're too small.”

Of course we will “foot the bill” for our own country. Looking forward to you buying us out of all the UK assets we have a 10% share in and all the lovely rental income for Trident for the next 10 years. Yum yum.

As for being too small to be in the EU, you know that Denmark is half the size of Scotland, right? And that Belgium, where the EU Parliament is, is a third of the size of Scotland?

@bluebeck

It doesn’t meet the requirements to join the EU. The GDP deficit is 7%. It needs to be under 3% to be able to join the EU.

But don’t let the facts get in way of a fairytale.

“ It doesn’t meet the requirements to join the EU. The GDP deficit is 7%. It needs to be under 3% to be able to join the EU. ”

It doesn’t currently have a GDP deficit, as it isn’t independent. The GERS figures you are referring clearly state in the report that the figure are indicative of the status quo and not indicative of an independent Scotland.

The dictionary definition of a referendum is "a general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision".

Nothing in there about keep holding them until the losing side get the answer they wanted the first time around.

A point of law

If Scotland leaves the union then the remainder of the country will, under international law, be renamed Little Britain. Matt Lucas and David Walliams will be joint monarchs

Streetwise Hercules
'It doesn’t currently have a GDP deficit, as it isn’t independent. The GERS figures you are referring clearly state in the report that the figure are indicative of the status quo and not indicative of an independent Scotland.'

But we'd start off on Day One with the status quo. How would you propose to reduce the deficit? It's not imaginary, it's the difference between Scottish tax receipts and Scottish spending.

I'm not seeing any bashing of Scotland or Scottish people here. I'm seeing lots of fairly restrained and justified SNP and nationalist-bashing.

Please stop conflating the SNP/indy movement with Scotland as a whole. Fewer than half of us support them. Have some respect for your fellow Scots.

I think people are saying the EU wouldn't be falling over themselves to have us join, as the SNP keep telling us. They have the nationalist attitude that others need us much more than we need them. We are not more special than anyone else.
I'm sure we could apply to join and be accepted, but we'd have to meet the conditions. This could take a few years (plus negotiations) and could be quite tough to do, requiring a period of austerity.

Someone said it's now accepted that a period of financial suffering would be an acceptable price to pay for independence. I don't think most people would go for that. It's quite an extreme ideological position, and it's certainly not what's broadcast. For most of us, a decent life day to day is more important than having a passport that's a different colour to the ones the English have.

StreetwiseHercules

“I’d agree with you if Scotland was booming but I can’t support your argument when Scotland has the massive social problems it has.
From what I’ve read schools and NHS are not what they used to be
Also how can you rely on your gas income long term with global warming and the move to green energy.”

Terrible argument. The problems Scotland has exist under the status quo. Under Westminster rule.

My God. You said upthread that we'd be fine as our GDP is 50th in the world. That is also under the status quo. So are we doing well just now or not?

And schools and the NHS - what a cheek blaming their poor performance on the English. They are both devolved, and have been wrecked by the SNP in their ten years in government here. Partly because they are incompetent, and partly because they spend all their time campaigning for independence. A protest group does not make for a good party of government.

Why are you happy for Scotland to be run down like this?

Nicola needs to look at the general election result of 2015. Pretty much all yellow and that was just after the referendum where we said NO. Now, it’s definately a bit patchy. True that it’s yellower than a week ago but definitely not a ‘mandate for independence’. Try ‘we want to remain in the EU and Labour doesn’t know what it wants and Lib Dem vote is wasted’ mandate. Less than half the Scottish pop voted snp. The polls still have NO to win. Why does she go on like a bleating scratched record. Plenty of people voted to exit eu and plenty voted Tory in Scotland so it’s not ‘against Scotlands will’. ‘Against Scotlands will’ is keeping trying to gain independence when Scotland and only Scotland voted no!

I suspect the EU policy towards Scotland will be affected by how Brexit progresses. Northern Ireland politics and position may well influence the situation too. I don't know how.

Of course we will “foot the bill” for our own country. Looking forward to you buying us out of all the UK assets we have a 10% share in and all the lovely rental income for Trident for the next 10 years. Yum yum.

Eh?? Sturgeon wants to get rid of trident.

The lack of a hard boarder doesn’t mean uncontrolled immigration. Britain and Ireland don’t have a hard boarder. That doesn’t mean that I can just move to Ireland and get a job there without applying for the relevant visas first.