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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To still like Jeremy Corbyn?

758 replies

malificent7 · 14/12/2019 06:59

I think it's right that he stepped down as the public clearly didn't get him...hated him even but i think he stands for the good in society. I actually think he is correctvto call out Israel for being bastards to Palestine and whilst ge apparently supports terroism ( ira), i think he is a negotiator ...the UK shafted Ireland hugely and the IRA is a consequence of that. We need people to negotiate with them.
I slso think remaining neutral on Brexit was the right thing to do but respecting the will of the people.

I don't hate Boris but he has got away with a lot. He has said many racist slurs, he hates women, he has multiple illegitimate children yet blames women, he switched sides re Brexit, oh and he's happy to trade with people like Saudi Arabia who have awful human rights. But apparently Jeremy is the bad one.

OP posts:
Lizzie0869 · 14/12/2019 16:57

*He might seem a nice guy if you believe same as him.

On the anti-Semitism in the party it can go two ways eithier he is a anti Semite(I don't think he is) or he is incompetent for letting it fester instead of confronting it.*

Precisely. I don't think Corbyn is anti-Semitic at all, he's just against the Israeli Government, as he's a supporter of the Palestinians, and a lot of people agree with him on that. (I agree with a lot of what he says on that issue.)

The point is that he hasn't spelt out that anti-Semitism is beyond the pale and won't be tolerated in the Labour Party. That makes him appear incompetent.

MarshaBradyo · 14/12/2019 17:00

Blair also got a huge landslide at 418 seats.

Why Labour chose Ed over David I do not know. As someone said a real sliding doors moment. It’s some effort to choose the least likely to be elected and the most like to be decimated by the media.

Jillyhilly · 14/12/2019 17:01

Wonderful example here of a Momentum person “reflecting”.

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:04

Can you not understand how irrelevant a 4 day week is to many people?

Yes, I do understand it. Not every policy is going to help every person.

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:05

If I can’t keep them then I won’t earn them. I’ll stop when I’ve earned the maximum my family is allowed to keep. Let the other person earn their own like I did. And this is why socialism doesn’t work.

Yes, because people won’t think of the wider good. And I think that’s immoral. That’s all.

AuntSpiker · 14/12/2019 17:05

The IRA thing baffles me. Clinton, Blair and the Unionist leader all held talks with them too. The NI Secretary of State was negotiating with the IRA in the 70s. It was vital in the peace process

Two points. As has been said, these people were speaking to ALL sides in a bid to bring about peace. Secondly, they were acting as members of a negotiating team, whose aim was to bring about peace. Corbyn only spoke to one side, and had no legitimate part to play in the peace process. Mo Mowlam, who was pivotal in bringing about peace, condemned his behaviour regarding the IRA

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:07

It may not be churchandstate's concern that we have thriving businesses but where does the country's wealth come from? How are you going to tax them if there's no profit?

I didn’t object to them making money. I objected to the idea that they exist for the benefit of their employees.

And yes, of course policies have to be balanced against the impact on GDP, but GDP and profit aren’t the only - or even the primary - considerations. We can’t keep on going up and up and up. At some point we have to look at the effect our working culture is having on people’s lives, and balance the two out.

Illeana · 14/12/2019 17:07

Yes, because people won’t think of the wider good. And I think that’s immoral
You think it’s immoral for people to work only for their own benefit and not want to support others who sit on their bums? Hmm

Marleyisme · 14/12/2019 17:11

And the priority of a business is not its employees. Most business owners are in business to make money, not to provide jobs or some sort of charitable service to employees. Be serious.

Lots of businesses recognise taking care of their employees helps the business run well and smoothly. Now you be serious. Most business owners would be devastated at the loss if their business AND the impact on its employees.

But you dont care about businesses or their employees.

Can I ask what qualifications I economics the ‘that manifesto is rubbish and could ever be done’ people have? Because163 actual economiststhought it was exactly what the country needed...

That link doesnt work. Even JC himself admitted the waspis were not going to get quite what they thought they were.

Theres a problem if 168 economists agree his plan is financially viable (different to what the country needs) while JC is saying 'well waspis wont actually get the full amount. Or at least not all at once and I dont know when payments would be start and be sorted'

He didnt even believe it.

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:12

Illeana

No. I think it’s immoral that some people are prepared to stop working as soon as it isn’t benefiting them personally.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 14/12/2019 17:13

I think he's lovely. Such a shame he's not our new Prime Minister, he'd have been great and the Labour policies would have transformed this country and so many lives for the better.
The only thing I don't agree with in your post is where you say Boris has one or more illegitimate children.
In my eyes no child is ever illegitimate. Everyone has their own unique place in the world and no one should start out disadvantaged by such old fashioned slurs and attitudes.

noblegiraffe · 14/12/2019 17:14

You can’t shame people into changing their vote if they don’t think what they are doing is wrong.

You can’t tell people what they are doing is wrong if they’re doing what they’re doing because their values are different to yours.

And that was an approach widely seen to be used by Labour supporters against Tory supporters. And they’re baffled why it didn’t work.

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:14

But you dont care about businesses or their employees.

I care about people. Not businesses. I don’t mind businesses and I appreciate that they’re necessary. I have no desire to upset business owners. But they’re not my first or only thought when deciding how society ought to work.

tillytrotter1 · 14/12/2019 17:16

YANBU and I hope we choose a new Labour Psrty leader who will carry on his work.

Totally agree, then they'll never get back in.

Jillyhilly · 14/12/2019 17:16

the Labour policies would have transformed this country and so many lives

Well that much is true. We could have all been equally poor and miserable together.

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:16

You can’t tell people what they are doing is wrong if they’re doing what they’re doing because their values are different to yours.

Yes I can. You don’t have to listen but I can say it if I want to.

Marleyisme · 14/12/2019 17:19

No. I think it’s immoral that some people are prepared to stop working as soon as it isn’t benefiting them personally.

Firstly tax benefits us all. Secondly, you think people should sacrifice time with their family, time to relax and go to work for other people?

I care about people. Not businesses. I don’t mind businesses and I appreciate that they’re necessary. I have no desire to upset business owners. But they’re not my first or only thought when deciding how society ought to work.*

Then you do care about people. You dont care how people will live.

You care about ideals. Even if those ideals damage people, the ideals are more important.

That is not how you run a country or care about it's people. JC thinks along those lines whi h is why he is unelectable.

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:21

Firstly tax benefits us all. Secondly, you think people should sacrifice time with their family, time to relax and go to work for other people?

I believe we should all contribute what we are capable of for roughly equal benefit.

Then you do care about people. You dont care how people will live.

I care passionately about how people will live. I don’t want to live in a society where some people live high and some low. Sue me.

You care about ideals. Even if those ideals damage people, the ideals are more important.

No, people are more important.

MyNewHairdryer · 14/12/2019 17:21

Here we go again - echo, Corbyn, echo, echo, Momentum, echo, ech, ech, ec, ec.............
Did the recent election result teach you nothing?

noblegiraffe · 14/12/2019 17:21

I think this confusion between morals and values comes up in the trans debate. Women are valuing ‘security’ and the left are valuing ‘tolerance’ and women are baffled to suddenly be attacked as morally wrong by the side whose values they normally share.

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:23

noblegiraffe

Morality will come into most passionate debates, won’t it?

Illeana · 14/12/2019 17:24

I think it’s immoral that some people are prepared to stop working as soon as it isn’t benefiting them personally
That’s pretty much EVERYONE. Otherwise people would be happily dishing out their cash to the needy, giving their houses to bigger families who need them more, there’d be no millionaires and we’d all be equal. In the real world people keep what they earn and only give a small amount to charity.

MarshaBradyo · 14/12/2019 17:24

Labour are in a difficult position without a more moderate leader more centre left people won’t join. Without them joining one likely won’t be chosen.

How do they end with Blair? That was a good decision.

Marleyisme · 14/12/2019 17:24

I care passionately about how people will live. I don’t want to live in a society where some people live high and some low. Sue me.

People live by having resources. They get those (mostly) by working. You dont care about the businesses so you dont care how those people will live.

You cant care about people AND not care about them maintaining their income

churchandstate · 14/12/2019 17:27

Illeana

Which is why I think it’s moral for the State to have a role in redistribution.

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