To still like Jeremy Corbyn?

[malificent7]

I think it's right that he stepped down as the public clearly didn't get him...hated him even but i think he stands for the good in society. I actually think he is correctvto call out Israel for being bastards to Palestine and whilst ge apparently supports terroism ( ira), i think he is a negotiator ...the UK shafted Ireland hugely and the IRA is a consequence of that. We need people to negotiate with them.
I slso think remaining neutral on Brexit was the right thing to do but respecting the will of the people.

I don't hate Boris but he has got away with a lot. He has said many racist slurs, he hates women, he has multiple illegitimate children yet blames women, he switched sides re Brexit, oh and he's happy to trade with people like Saudi Arabia who have awful human rights. But apparently Jeremy is the bad one.

It’s strange to find the left threads and posts on here so deaf to it.

That would be because the tone deaf press has created a divide in this country where only certain opinions are given a voice. There is big discrepancy between what is said to be the way 'most' people are thinking and what they're actually thinking and feeling.

Remember the shock of Brexit? Many of those people who voted out were not getting their views represented in the now woefully inadequate and unfit for purpose mainstream press.

And it is woefully inadequate. I have no idea what people think is going to happen. Do you really think the inequalities we are dealing with are just going to go away? It won't, and there will be increasing political polarisation as a result. And those fringe parties that are really anti-semitic and islamophobic, and racist and anti-immigrant will gain growing amounts of disaffected adherents who feel the capitalist utopia has left them behind. Meanwhile our ridiculous echo chamber press can carry on serving themselves. What was it they used to call Murdoch? Kingmaker.

It's all so bleakly inevitable.

Who did you vote for?

I honestly didn’t want to vote for anyone. Against was how I voted.

Ideas of virtue lead to, as you said, self-righteousness, and self-righteousness leads to demonisation. Demonisation leads to people rioting on the streets wearing tops saying ‘kill Tory scum’. And that’s where we apparently are.

And like I said, I’m not sure you can assign more virtue to free broadband than Get Brexit Done.

Ideas of virtue lead to, as you said, self-righteousness, and self-righteousness leads to demonisation. Demonisation leads to people rioting on the streets wearing tops saying ‘kill Tory scum’. And that’s where we apparently are.

None of which has anything to do with the fact that I think left wing policies are better (morally) than right wing ones. I am not demonising anyone. Go and take issue with the people who are doing that, not me.

I’d support a 4 day week in education.

Right. And who would look after the kids on the fifth day? Or would the whole country shut up shop on a Friday?

And how would we get through the curriculum?

Of course you can impose it. I don’t understand why you don’t seem to know what laws are. And I am not saying it would work brilliantly for all businesses. That would have to be worked out.

You dont understand. The tivernmenet can no impose working hours. Some places have full time at 35 hours a d some at 45 hours. Theres rule about how many hours can be worked in one go, or how long you need off inbetween shifts. Which can all be opted out from.

And I am not saying it would work brilliantly for all businesses. That would have to be worked out.

Worked out? Business that are built will struggle. How do you work that out? Give them money? Wheres that coming from.

The lack of concern for how businesses would deal with issues like this, is exactly why people did have faith in JC.

People relate on businesses for employment and their manifesto was based in 'it wont be good for business....but we will work it out. I know you are now worried about your own jobs. But it's all good'.

Its ridiculous. That's not an economic plan. That's terrifying

Are the other parties better? No. But we arenr talking about them.

A decent, realistic leftbased plan would have given the election to JC.but he either couldnt do that or wouldnt. Hence we bloody lost because they believed that some people would rather hear fairy stories about how things would work in an ideal world instead of offering something realistic.

noblegiraffe

Maybe we would shut down, yes. Or maybe parents would have to pay for childcare (school isn’t childcare). Or maybe school buildings could be used for extra-curricular clubs on one day per week. Or maybe we would keep the 5 day week but have longer holidays to make up for the fact that teachers were working more than the standard 4 day week. There are solutions.

The curriculum is ludicrously over-pressurised and stuffed to the gills. I would make education compulsory up to 19. I would slow it all down and take out some of the key stage testing.

And who is deciding those morals, church?

Marleyisme

The government can impose hours. It just doesn’t at the moment. I am not saying it can be done without costing business. The point is, as a left-wing voter, I choose not to prioritise the interests of business.

When we moved to the 5 day week, when we brought in the minimum wage, when we introduced mat leave, parental leave, the Equalities Act and a hundred other reforms, it cost businesses. Of course it did. They adapted.

noblegiraffe

I don’t understand your question.

Or maybe parents would have to pay for childcare

Don’t childminders get to work a 4 day week?

Maybe he didn’t want one?

Well, it's an answer of a sort I suppose - but is it really likely?

After all JC (apparently) wanted to be Prime Minister, and anyway if someone has such strong principles, surely they'd value the opportunity to turn them into policy which a cabinet post could have brought?

Don’t childminders get to work a 4 day week?

Childminders can work a 4 day week now if they want to.

church I’m asking where you get your morality from?

Because if your idea of ‘more moral’ comes from your left wing values, then a left wing manifesto will obviously look more moral to you. It’s a circular argument.

Church I worry about a bleak future but I differ on one point. Labour are better as a centre left opposition who can actually be a credible alternative to Cons.

I worry about how bleak things will be if they refuse to listen to this very loud message and become redundant.

Well, it's an answer of a sort I suppose - but is it really likely?

It doesn’t strike me as unlikely. He wasn’t exactly aligned with Blairite politics.

Of course you can impose it. I don’t understand why you don’t seem to know what laws are.

You could only impose the 4 day week, you could not impose that businesses had to keep everyones wages the same.

This is lunacy.

noblegiraffe

I know it’s circular - you were the one who made it, though, in the form of your challenge to my right to think what I think is right, is right.

I don’t know where I get my morals. Like everyone, I am the product of my experiences.

The governmentcanimpose hours. It just doesn’t at the moment. I am not saying it can be done without costing business. The point is, as a left-wing voter, I choose not to prioritise the interests of business.

No it cant. Not without changing law and going through the house of lords. It would also require new contracts for all staff and they cant Impose pay, outside minimum wage.

Destroying businesses isnt what people want.

You may choose not to priortise business. Yet many businesses priority is their employees. The employees want their businesses to not be run into the ground.

If you have no care for business. You have no care for their employees and your plan is to make people worse off. So not the right thing. Not virtuous or caring.

Mat leave is very different to changing the fundamental structure of a business.

Childminders can work a 4 day week now if they want to.

Yes, on 4 day a week pay, like I do as a teacher. The Corbyn 4 day week was supposed to be on 5 day pay.

So will the childminders be working a 5 day week in order to prop up everybody else’s 4 day week?

So will the childminders be working a 5 day week in order to prop up everybody else’s 4 day week?

No, I expect they would adjust their costs, but we would need fewer of their hours.

@churchandstate its obvious you are an example of the far left but really understanding economics or how people feel about their jobs and income and security.

I feel that you genuinely believe you’ve delivered an eloquent rebuttal to what I said there, so I hope that makes your day a bit better

I genuinely believe that, unfortunately, your opinions on antisemitism are not rare in the Labour Party, and no, that doesn't make my day better.

Marleyisme

This is the same tired argument that gets trotted out every time anyone proposes a reform to the working culture of this country. Changes often require courage and adaptability, but some changes are worthwhile, and I believe this might be one of them, for people’s mental and physical health and their ability to work long enough to support themselves in old age, in a reasonable state of health. I can’t say 100% that it’s doable, but I won’t rule it out as clearly impossible either.

Marleyisme

I’m not really “far left”. I’m left wing.

Marleyisme

And the priority of a business is not its employees. Most business owners are in business to make money, not to provide jobs or some sort of charitable service to employees. Be serious.