To think it’s utterly disgraceful that Corbyn hasn’t resigned

[Bearbehind]

The man is the reason the Labour Party didn’t stand a chance in the GE

Yet today he doesn’t even have the good grace or integrity to step aside

Is their anyone at all who supports him in that decision?

They voted labour despite him

You have no statistics supporting that. It's anecdotal. Personally, I know very few people who don't like them. And that's countrywide.

I want us to have decent options.

I know I won't win any fans among Corbyn fans by putting it across in these terms, but I want a buyer's market, where politicians have to compete against strongly viable competition, because what is a market without vigorous competition.

What we have is a seller's market - we have a row of boarded up shops except a red one and a blue one. Red one has a sign saying "Don't like it? Piss off next door then before we cut ya", blue one has a sign saying "Come in, buy potato with smile on face and perhaps we don't knock you out and steal kidneys"

My point is we don't know who did or didn't vote for Labour based on Corbyn. You believe he's universally loathed. That's certainly not my experience.

And we can't trust what's in the media, or even on social media. I'm talking about who amongst your closest friends have you got this information from?

It's just not enough to draw a conclusion. Each of us in the UK has but one tiny piece of a huge jumble of information.

All I can tell you is, I don't know a single person who actively dislikes Corbyn. And in the whole time I was canvassing - not just in this area - I only spoke to one person who said they didn't like him.

So forgive me for being extremely suspicious of the conclusion that Labour lost purely because people didn't like him.

All I can tell you is, I don't know a single person who actively dislikes Corbyn. And in the whole time I was canvassing - not just in this area - I only spoke to one person who said they didn't like him

There are plenty of Labour canvassers who say completely the opposite.

All I can tell you is, I don't know a single person who actively dislikes Corbyn. And in the whole time I was canvassing - not just in this area - I only spoke to one person who said they didn't like him.

So are you ignoring the numerous labour politicians who have said the exact opposite? Seriously?

I was always an avid labour supporter - this absolute reluctance by some labour voters/MP's to LISTEN doesn't give me any confidence that I'll be able to return to vote Labour anytime soon

I’d believe the canvassers who said the opposite given that Corbyn had a disastrous election.

A guy I follow on twitter who loves Corbyn who ran the campaign on the Isle of Wight says people hated Corbyn and I see no reason for him to lie.

I posted some blog posts from the Isle of Wight guy here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/3769216-Why-Labour-lost-Leavers-and-Remainers

Personally, I know very few people who don't like them. And that's countrywide.

You must be very excited that Jeremy is now beginning his second term as PM after another decisive election victory... 😜

You must be very excited that Jeremy is now beginning his second term as PM after another decisive election victory

No, like a lot of people, I'm extremely worried. But don't let me stop you from enjoying gloating.

*TheBlueStocking Wed 18-Dec-19 23:47:30
You must be very excited that Jeremy is now beginning his second term as PM after another decisive election victory

No, like a lot of people, I'm extremely worried. But don't let me stop you from enjoying gloating.*

I think Blue it's the fact you're pushing the Corbyn and Momentum ideal when it's been the reason people like me, have voted against. You are not listening that this Labour party has massively failed people like me who feel massively let down. And having been absolutely annihilated in the election I'm bloody annoyed that there are still people like you making excuses for Corbyn.

Believe me - as an historic labour voter I didn't vote Conservative lightly - I couldn't vote for someone who promised the earth and then some, ignored brexit and wouldn't commit and championed women's rights being ignored.

It would seem from Mark Serwotka's appearance on Newsnight tonight that Bluestocking isn't the only Corbynista who has learned nothing from the election result.

What we need apparently is just more of the same. Swap the Magic Grandpa for Rebecca Long- Bailey but otherwise no change.

I think it could be 2029 election before Labour has any hope of winning; assuming some sense prevails.

@naughtynelliesnunnie

I'm sorry you don't like him. I'm not sure how you expect me to deal with that information from an anonymous post on the internet when it directly contradicts what I've seen in real life. I'm not going to agree he's a shit and that no one likes him because I already know that's not the case.

I'm sorry you personally feel he's personally to blame for everything that is wrong with the Labour party. I still think you should have voted for your local Labour MP, because that's who you were voting to represent you. The leader of any party is always in flux. And you should really know that the Conservatives have been making a pig's ear of things from your own observations, unless you are extremely sheltered. So you've just voted for more of that, which is terrifying for a lot of people.

I think we are lucky only having a few Corbynista cult members on here. I've just seen the C4 interview with Siobhan Mcdonagh on Facebook and the comments are unbelievable.

But why vote Tory if you were unhappy with Corbyn. You could have:

• not voted
• voted Green
• voted Lib Dem
• voted independent if available

I can't get my head around voting Tory if you are a traditional Labour voter Totally understand not wanting to vote Labour if you didn't like their policies. The Iraq war was a reason many gave for not voting Labour in the past but I can't remember anyone saying they voted Tory instead.

One basic fact:- Labour have lost (twice now). There is no getting away from this fact.

Some reasonable supposition:- a number of opinion polls, anecdotal evidence and reports from people on the boards - the MAJOR (but not the only) reason Labour lost is the leader.

Result - if you have a failed leader, who has lost twice (the second time incredibly badly), it MIGHT be a good idea to listen to what people are saying. Simply telling people - nope, you're wrong. "We won the argument" (as Corbyn said) is telling me that we are in the for the long haul in terms of a Tory Government. Unless the labour party appeal to the cetre ground (which for some reason is seen as being a TERRIBLE thing to do - bloody Blairites!! etc.), they are doomed to be a party of protest, and not a party of power. At that point, to my mind, they are betraying their core voters, the people who NEED a Labour government, and enabling a Conservative government.

*But why vote Tory if you were unhappy with Corbyn. You could have:

• not voted
• voted Green
• voted Lib Dem
• voted independent if Available*

Exactly. Why put your cross next to the Tories, when they have a huge streak of awfulness over the last several years. Anything would have been better than supporting the current government.

Some reasonable supposition

Exactly - it's supposition. If ten people vote for one thing and thirteen people vote for another, and out of those thirteen there were who knows how many who hadn't even considered voting for the other, I really don't see how that is mathematically a clear indication that no one wanted Corbyn or found the Labour party too vile to vote for. You are talking about a scant number of people, statistically.

Supposition based in reality (see the reference to opinion polls etc.) - feel free to go "la la la not listening" as much as you wish. If you have a counter-veiling argument other than "The opinion polls are wrong, the majority of MPs are wrong, the majority of canvassers out on the streets are wrong", I am willing to listen.

I am a canvasser, but you don't seem to think my opinion counts.

And I'm sorry, but I must believe what I see with my own eyes in this age of misinformation.

OK... so, you will only believe what you see with your own eyes? In which case, evidence based reasoning has no value for you at all. If everything is viewed through the prism of your anecdotal experience, and if it does not align with that anecdote (note:- anecdotes are not evidence), then there is no real point discussing.

As mentioned - if the Labour party will NOT listen to what other people are saying... then good news for the Tories I guess?

There are plenty of Labour MPs saying Corbyn should go. You can see them with your own eyes.