To think that the outcome of the general election shows the results of what a second referendum would have been?

[TheNameGames]

This was sold as a Brexit General election and the resounding result of a Conservative landslide majority surely demonstrates once and for all that the majority of people (again, well, even more now) want Brexit to happen, despite people insisting people had changed their minds.

To people that said they would accept the result of a second referendum, do you accept it now? (I’m not talking about the conservatives winning, but specifically about the referendum result). If not, what, specifically, was the reason for a Conservative landslide?

All parties need to shift their stances before the next election, and fast, IMO.

The Brexit Party won the European Election too. So that’s Leave won the referendum; Leave won the European Election and Get Brexit Done won the GE. 3/3. Message received.

Well, I think it's safe to say people who voted remain in the referendum will never accept it wasn't Brexit that won the conservatives this election. I voted leave, but even that wasn't the reason I voted for the conservatives. I voted for them as I had no other choice, unless I wanted to vote for the lib dems (my usual party) who have gone bonkers, or voted Labour (my natural choice being working class) who are far too militant and would cause massive disruption to the country. It was as simple as that, the brexit choice wasn't my main consideration at all, it's just a nice bonus in my view.

I agree that a Leave Win in Ref#3 was most likely. I've said so for years.
My unhappiness is... so many people would have voted Leave the 3rd time because:

"I still want to give the Establishment a kicking."

"They shouldn't have asked us again; it's outrageous/arrogant/undemocratic to ask us again"

"We've gone too far down the path of Leave to turn back now; to change our minds would be too embarrassing, we'd be the laughing stock of Europe."

"Europe is sick of us anyway."

"Remain predicted that Leave Result would mean disaster last time and that didn't happen so Remain is obviously lying (but it doesn't matter how much the Leave Campaign lie b/c I don't expect better of them anyway)."

None of which has to do with whether being a member of EU is a good thing!!

Oh well. I need a new hobby which isn't following politics. I'm one of the Experts (the country is sick of) who likes the Enemies of the People (ie, the Judges). When Tories talk about "The People", they don't mean me. When BJ talks about unifying the country he certainly doesn't mean anyone like me even deserves to be in the country.

I’m already sick of people saying “remain parties won the popular vote.”

Labour were not a remain party - they refused to commit either way for ages, eventually decided they would have a second referendum, and Jeremy Corbyn refused to say which side he supported.

You cannot count Labour votes as remain - Lib Dem yes and maybe SNP, but not Labour.

Boris and Trump are a sign that people are fed up of not being listened to.
Why can you not see that.

@mummmy2017 ha ha Ireland seem to be quite content being in the EU so why can't we? Yes it may take time to re-join but it would be worth it and in the meantime perhaps we would get special pre-accession deal to continue access to erasmus and other funding, reciprocal healthcare etc? Something worth fighting for in my opinion

Also my views on Brexit pale into insignificance when compared to the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister. I got to the point where I couldn’t give a fuck what happens about Brexit as long as Corbyn isn’t PM.

You make a fair point

It nailed the
Message didn’t it really ?
I’m have lost all hope

Can someone give evidence for how the Tories good at listening to "people"?

More people in total voted for remain parties than leave parties

Why do you feel a vote for Labour counts as remain?

Really Weebitawks?

Only the Lib Dems and SNP had a Remain manifesto. There is something very wrong with your maths or your logic. This silliness has to stop and we need to move on.

If you want to do this silly remain/leave maths then ok-

Remain = Lib Dem + SNP (?) + Green + Plaid (?) + DUP (?) = 19.5%

Leave = Conservative + Brexit + UKIP
= 45.7%

Pretty clear to me that remain can’t claim any victory from this.

I definitely think for a lot of people a vote for conservatives was the same as voting to leave.

Both me and DH voted conservative for the first time in our lives because of Brexit. I never thought I would vote conservative although having been a labour voter all my life no way would I vote for Corbyn.

Quite a few friends and family voted conservative for the first time ever because they want to leave the EU.

Also places where the leave vote was high turned from strong labour to conservative, My area had been labour since 1929. The conservatives were voted in with over 28,000 votes as opposed to labour's 14,000.

Boris and Trump are a sign that people are fed up of not being listened to

Well I’m ‘people‘ and the fact Boris is PM means I’m not being listened to.

That’s politics; can’t keep everyone happy all of the time, but don’t kid yourself it’s what everyone wants.

A GE is not comparable to a referendum because there are far more options available meaning the votes are diluted. I wasn’t voting for anyone, I was voting against the tories.

Like a previous poster, I suspect another referendum simply asking leave/remain would yield similar results to the original one and resolve nothing.

What actually needs to happen is for people to stop rewriting the rules of maths and accept the 48/52% is about as even as you will ever get in an election and is as unpopular as it is popular. There is a significant portion of the population who are unhappy with the direction a tiny majority is able to lead us in.

Cameron was hugely incompetent to not include % majority’s as binding in the referendum and has a lot to answer for over the divisiveness in this country today.

@Shoppingwithmother, why have you left out the labour numbers? Labour campaigned on another referendum so surely count as a third category?

There’s a word for people who manipulate figures the way you have in that post.

The Labour heartlands we're turning slowly blue when Gordon Brown called that lady a bigot years ago. It's taken a long while but add in the unpopular Corbyn and Brexit and the uncertainty over it all , the people 'spoke. ' on Thursday.
Wrongly or rightly it's become clear that leaving the EU is what they want and areas that have been hardest hit by austerity are still willing to vote in a party that seems keen to forge ahead with the result of the referendum in 2016.
If it's a disaster in a few years time then the tories and their voters will have to own it all.
If it works then that will be a good thing.
I can see all sides of these arguments but only time will tell how it will pan out.

IF people voted based on their views of Brexit:

13,966,451 voted Tory
642,323 voted Brexit party
(14,608,774 voted for leave parties without counting UKIP etc)

10,269,076 voted labour (we'll count them a remain/second ref)
1,242,380 voted SNP
3,696,423 voted Lib Dem
(18,305,197 voted for remain or second ref parties without counting greens, PC, etc. )

Draw your own conclusions.

As an aside, it shows how crappy FPTP is. We need PR.

@Cornettoninja

Well, yes, that is my whole fucking point!!

My calculation was in answer to the people saying more people voted for remain parties.

Yes, exactly as I was saying, Labour are not in either category- my point exactly! So if comparing leave vs remain they are irrelevant and don’t need to be mentioned.

What’s the word for people like me who do things like that with figures? “Accurate?”

Why do you feel a vote for Labour counts as remain?

I’m a strong remainer and I voted Labour not because I like Labour at the moment or because I think Corbyn would make a good prime minister (I don’t). But because I live in a constituency where there is a sitting Tory MP and Labour have the best chance of unseating him. I’d have voted for a bunny rabbit if I thought they had the best chance of unseating the Tory MP.

There were a huge number of Remainer sites that you could go on which told you your best chance of beating the Tories and Labour was included in that.

Sadly there were no “large” parties in England that were “true” remainers. But I’d be fine with a second referendum.

Incidentally I went to a talk a while ago by John Curtice. (Mr Exit Poll.) His view was that a second referendum would lead to a very narrow remain win - not because leave voters have become remainers but because leave voters have died and remain voters have turned 18.

I am a leaver but cannot vote for a Tory party so my only other options we 'remain'parties or waste my vote.
I have to vote on issues other than Brexit.
Many people did the same I expect

I would love be to know the demographic of non voters.I would expect the majority to be young but just don't know.

I don't want brexit but I do believe in upholding the fibre of our society- democracy. We had the vote, we voted to leave. A vote for Labour would have been a hung parliament with further stagnation of our economy and paralysis on business.

I could not support the hard left stance and could not support Corbyn as a leader. Had labour been more central and had a different leader I may have voted for them.

There were no easy choices in this election but we now need to use our influence to push the agenda, Boris is a popularist leader and will drive the agenda to whatever will keep him in power.

I think a lot of people voted Tory just to get Brexit out of the way, even if at heart they are remainer they just couldn't face the uncertainty of another referendum, particularly if the outcome was still leave (and including people voting leave just to get it out of the way) . So many people just sick and tired of the uncertainty.

I personally voted for a remain party, I wanted to see another referendum as I think people were lied to and didn't understand the implications of the first one.

But for anyone who voted Tory just to move on I really get it.