To think that the outcome of the general election shows the results of what a second referendum would have been?

[TheNameGames]

This was sold as a Brexit General election and the resounding result of a Conservative landslide majority surely demonstrates once and for all that the majority of people (again, well, even more now) want Brexit to happen, despite people insisting people had changed their minds.

To people that said they would accept the result of a second referendum, do you accept it now? (I’m not talking about the conservatives winning, but specifically about the referendum result). If not, what, specifically, was the reason for a Conservative landslide?

All parties need to shift their stances before the next election, and fast, IMO.

@notnowmaybelater
RoseAndRose it's not a bigger leave vote than before though is it? 43% voting conservative yesterday isn't more than 52% voting leave in 2016

That’s a disingenuous argument when the previous argument from some remainers was “only 37% of the electorate actually voted to leave”.

This just proves a lot of MN needs to see that their views are inward looking and clash with how the voting public feel.
Shout and calling nasty names to those of us on the threads, may have distorted your views, giving you a false grip on how important the issues really were.

we should never have triggered what is such a life changing, future changing, financial impacting decision on such a slim majority in the first place Yes, absolutely. Even the most local of societies or community groups has a clause in its Constitution saying "really big changes need a two thirds majority". If you applied the result of the referendum to a group of 25 people going to a restaurant together, you'd say "well, it's obvious we haven't got agreement, does anyone have any other ideas?".

"AlwaysCheddar Fri 13-Dec-19 07:08:12
The EU will be very worried now (good)."

BAHAHAHAHA

The "EU" is absolutely, utterly, totally sick of the UK dilly-dallying. Despite us thinking your decision was one of utter stupidity, we cannot wait for you to bloody leave and let everyone else move on with our lives. 3 fucking years of delays and bullshit, FFS!!! You British people really are deluded.

Just go!

There, I had to say it.

I voted Remain but I think you are correct OP.

Corbyn was never going to win the election as too many people don’t trust him and the Momentum train.

Having said that I had hoped for a closer result.

Brexit though....I said at the start (and was laughed at for it) that leaving the EU was not going to be simple. I was right...it isn’t and I will be very surprised if Boris can just walk away in January with his No Deal.

Time will tell.

Well 53% of the vote went to Labour, LD, Green and SNP, i.e. the parties who wanted a second referendum. Only 47% to conservatives and Brexit Party. The Lib Dems gained over a million votes despite an abysmal campaign. Conservatives gained only a quarter of that. Greens’ vote increased greatly, albeit from a very low base.

One silver lining of all of this is that the Conservative party will now have to absolutely own all that comes out of Brexit, every last little bit of shit, every lost job, every lost home, every community fucked over by the loss of a Nissan, or a Honda, or one of the thousands of smaller firms going to the wall because of it. The fact it’s taken the Conservatives so long after Thatcher to get back into power in some of the areas like Blyth shows they don’t forgive quickly. A few years down the line, with a decent, credible opposition with an electable leader, with the cult of Corbyn gone, when people can finally see for themselves what a colossal failure Brexit has been, the Conservatives will be finished for a generation.

From the EU

no because you are discounting what the campaigning in the run-up to a new referendum would have focused on. there was no credible opposing view to the "get Brexit done" slogan in this General Election because labour's policy is so wishy washy middle ground. if instead of a GE this had been a referendum, there would have been a lot more media attention on exposing the lies and holding the brexiteers properly to account for the empty promises of June 2016.

If the people who voted Lib Dem's and Green has voted for Labour, we'd have been seeing a very different result though.

BBC said 'less than 48% of the turnout voted for pro-brexit parties'

so whilst technically, you're right, it is finalised now, I don't think it's reflective of what people actually think.

I don’t think it does. I think more people overall cast votes for remain candidates. They just happen to be in clusters around the country.

Yes and no. No in the sense that actually I think Remain might have won a second referendum but yes in that people were offered a very clear reason, ‘get Brexit done’, to vote Conservative and they have given them a big majority. I think it is a mandate for Brexit.

I think looking at percentages is interesting but ultimately irrelevant as FPTP is what we have and people vote accordingly.

I also think this election was lost by Labour as much as won by the Tories and Labour have to take ownership of that.

I agree with this: One silver lining of all of this is that the Conservative party will now have to absolutely own all that comes out of Brexit, every last little bit of shit

And I want us all to blame the Conservative government for the shit, instead of blaming each other. Make them take responsibility.

If the people who voted Lib Dem's and Green has voted for Labour, we'd have been seeing a very different result though.

I don’t think that stacks up on an analysis of seats. On the popular vote, yes, but we are in FPTP. Perhaps if the Labour Party had made it possible for LD and Green voters to support them it would be different. They didn’t.

TheNameGames no it isn't disingenuous.

At the referendum 52% of those who turned out to vote voted leave.

At the election 43% of those who turned out to vote voted conservative.

Those who didn't vote at all are an additional point, emphasising the fact it's inaccurate to say "52% of the electorate (or of "the people" or of Britain) voted to leave" because many people didn't vote at all.

All that can be compared is the % of the votes actually cast. Those who cast no votes are an additional group but the fact that others correctly pointed out that there are also oranges in the basket in no way makes counting different types of apple disingenuous.

@TheNameGames my mistake, I thought that you meant that we had all become leavers, I haven’t but as remaining isn’t on the table then I voted to get out of this permanent limbo land. I still don’t want Brexit but respect it is happening. That was what I meant. I am still a remainer but there wasn’t an In - Out vote even though people were calling it the Brexit election

The EU will be very worried now (good)

On the off chance you’re being serious, why do you think this?

I suppose it’s some comfort that a referendum would have returned leave. Still gutted though. I obviously really do live in an echo chamber.

Not exactly, no OP

If the people who voted Lib Dem's and Green has voted for Labour, we'd have been seeing a very different result though.

No it wouldn't!

My seat was and is a massive Labour majority. My parents seat is a slim LD majority, with Labour nowhere.

The Lib Dems ave 11% of the vote and a tiny proportion of the seats. The result would be no LD seats and still a Tory majority.

There are two ways of viewing this. The largest percentage of votes cast were for pro Remain parties so I don't think the result is necessarily indicative of how a 2nd referendum would go.

However, as an ardent Remainer, as well as a supporter of Labour and Green policies, I cannot continue to try to second guess what is in the minds of people who voted Conservative yesterday. They voted as they did for whatever reason they did and I'm regrettably accepting that I cannot continue to argue with what appears, to me at least, to be insanity. I am prepared to accept that I am woefully out of step with most others I meet. I honestly don't recognise this country any more, or my fellow countrymen and women. Voting Conservative is one thing, but voting for a man who has been proven to lie again and again and who shows a staggering disrespect for women, muslims, foreigners, homosexuals etc is beyond comprehension to me. When Trump was elected we said it could never happen in an open and welcoming society such as the UK, but that's exactly what has happened.

The fight for me is over. I'm going to set about feathering my own nest to withstand the impending storm of the next 5 years under Tory rule. We will have another say in 5 years, hopefully free from the spectre of Brexit clouding judgement. I only hope it won't be too late to save our children's education and the health service us oldies have been able to rely on.

No. I would have voted remain if labour won in order to keep Jeremy in check (originally a leave voter).

Agree with everything Whataclusterfuck said ^^

The EU will be very worried now (good).

I don't think that's true. I live in the EU and the feeling here is similar to the UK, now it's decided they would rather deals can be made and move forward as neighbours. The deal Boris agreed with the EU can now be implemented.

As kenandbarbie says, living in the EU there is no sense that the EU is very worried about Brexit. Exasperated would be the word, although most ordinary citizens have totally lost interest now (they were fascinated in a rubbernecking sense until the extensions started, then it became the butt of jokes, now it's not interesting enough to mention). I have one rather vocal separatist colleague at work who was initially quite fired up by Brexit for the breakup of the EU, but has in the last year decided that in fact our state (not country) should put boarders back in place and we should return to medieval micro kingdoms...

The EU may be sad, incredulous or even bemused but I doubt they are worried. They can still negotiate better deals with other markets than the UK, they can still trade amongst themselves and probably most importantly the fiasco of Brexit has given anti EU campaigners in other countries pause for thought. Actually a messy Brexit is probably amongst the best PR the EU could ask for within the member states.

What is incredibly sad, is that even after all these years and extensions some people still don't understand that.

Can’t really view labour as remain votes. They’re ‘neutral’ votes, surely?