To think friend is looking for an excuse to not work

[Beadyohfeedme]

This is going to sound harsh.
My very close friend hasn't worked since her ds was born nearly 3 years ago. She's a single mum and has done a bit of temporary work, cash in hand and started a college course. She's a single mum so I do think she finds things tough but has very supportive family near by and a nice flat which is hers for life.
We have both struggled with our finances and she is currently nearly £20,000 in debt. I know it gets her down and she tells me that she ignores the post and phone calls. Everything goes on the credit card and she has taken her son out of nursery as she owes them nearly a grand and can't afford to pay.
I was absolutely delighted when she got offered a job a few weeks ago and not just any old job but a well paid one with career progression in an exciting sector. We went out to celebrate and after her first day she told me how great it felt to be earning and making a fresh start.
Last week she said commuting and dropping her ds off and picking him up at 6 was tiring and she didn't know how much longer she could do it. I said why didn't she drop to three days and try to do a lot of stiff the night before, batch cook on a Sunday etc. I have a dd4 and a ds3, a dp that's out the house 7-7 each day and full time job so even if I don't know exactly what her life is like, I know it can be tough day in and day out.
Today she said that because of something that happened at the Christmas do (married colleagues copping off and a fight between a guy and his wife) she didn't think she could work there anymore (because of the atmosphere.) I think this is a bit of a feeble excuse. Why would you chuck away a good job because of things that your colleagues have done wrong? Why not try to shorten your hours or look for something else whilst in this role? I think she's just tired and the novelty has worn off. Should I say something? I suppose I'm a big believer in work for self esteem, keeping your brain active and for making life more interesting. I just think she's making a mistake.

I think all you can do is point her in the right direction to get help with her debts rather than moaning about wether she’s working full time or not. It isn’t easy being a single parent, I have 2 older dc’s both with disabilities (I guess similar to having 3 year olds at times) and I only manage to work part time, it is mentally exhausting at times having to organise and do everything by yourself, it’s also very lonely. Of course in a ideal world it would be great if she works full time and pays of her debts but at what price if it’s going to make her ill and stressed?

I did all that before i became a single parent too OP. It's really nothing like being a single parent I can now testify.

As for the other thing - giving advice is all well and good.

Its her life her choice her decision and not anything to do with you whether its an excuse or not if she is unhappy and wants to leave she's a grown adult and can do what she wants.
Well yes, but that’s a bit cold and detached. I’m really grateful to friends who have green the ( sensitive) voice of sanity in the past, and stopped me making self defeating choices.
She sounds overwhelmed, and that’s not a good place to make choices from.
Op, do you think you can be really sensitive when you talk to her about it? she doesn’t need telling off or cajoling, but it could be really good to n point out that she also doesn’t need to be in debt.

I’ve not read the thread, forgive me of this has all been said, or if the thread has moved on.

I think it's irresponsible of her, yes.

She will be forming her own conclusions based on this experience. Ask her if being a single parent, working locally might suit her better.

Dont make her feel like if she just tried harder all her problems would go.

I do have more sympathy for your position as a friend watching when i read that you dont want her to make a mistake.

I am a single parent and i had a friend who is also a single parent to a boy who would be in secondary school now. She was making excuses when he was 11/12. I got frustrated. 12 years of listening to negativity.

Agree with @Ohyesiam she is overwhelmed.

You really need to give the comments on you having ANY idea what it's like to be a single parent a rest.

I was married when I had dd and to an army man so at times while married I was doing the practical stuff alone - even that is NOT the same as being a lone parent it's certainly NOT the same as having a partner who's home every day even if it's after the kids are in bed.

BELIEVE US

Having a partner to share the load practically, financially, mentally and emotionally is COMPLETELY different.

You really don't seem to be getting that point at all.

And frankly it's deeply insulting to those of us who have been/are single parents.

Now she wants to quit. It's like a friend going back to an ex boyfriend, they might not remember how awful they were but you do.

And it's her life. Her choice. Absolutely none of your business

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I've said over and over that I don't know what it's like to be a single parent. But isn't it much more patronising to single parents to say that my friend can't work because she is one? My supervisor is a single parent to a young ds, the manager of all admin in my hospital is a single parent of two, the consultant on my ward, I could go on! If my friend doesn't want to carry on in her role it's fine, but don't say it's just because she's a single parent.

Debts can be sorted so you only pay what can be afforded at the time. Even if that’s only £1 a month. They aren’t a big deal so long as they are handled properly. They can sit on the back burner until she is in a better position to work full time - for example once her child is three and childcare costs drop with funded hours etc.

Her little one is only two. Yes, working is better but things get easier as children get older. Being a single parent is hard going as you have to juggle everything and have no back up emotionally, financially or practically.

Not everyone has to work to keep their mind active etc. There are plenty of hobbies!

From what you've said it sounds blatantly obvious its an excuse and she just doesnt want to work any more (because she's knackered or whatever reason).

Firstly, I think its incredibly insincere for anyone in this thread to suggest that friends dont look out for each other and they should STFU and agree to everything their friend does (even if its self destructive).
In my view, thats not friendship at all, thats enablement and it shows a complete not giving a fck about your friend's welfare. Of COURSE you dont need to be judgey about it- but there is a middle ground between- "Dont worry about your debt- its fine!" and "you are a lazy slacker who refuses to work". The middle ground would be something like: "how's the job going? it must be tiring- are you finding it hard to juggle?, how can i help?" or, "Im sorry you're having such a hard time at work, it must be really hard. I am concerned for you that if you give this job up, you'll then be stressing about money like you were before- are there any other solutions?". I know MN doesnt like the middle ground because apparently its much easier and more fun to tell people online they are awful and insensitive but it does exist!

If she DOES give the job up then obviously thats her choice but personally I wouldn't entertain conversations where she moans about debt and money. She chose to give up a well paid job- thats completely her choice but she doesnt then get to vent about how broke she is. You can't have it both ways I'm afraid. If she does go down that path I would just gently say "I'm sorry you're struggling with this but really, the answer to this would be to find another job" and then I wouldn't discuss it any more.

I don't see anything wrong with reminding her of all the reasons why she wantef to work in the first place. She probably is daunted being back in the workplace and as her friend, I'd say you're obliged to look out for her happiness. Can you meet up just the two of you and you ask how she's doing, if she's happy, what the alternative is if she did leave?

@beautifulstranger101 thank you for understanding. I completely agree re: middle ground, I've already told her that I can pick up her ds once a week and feed him and bring him back later so she can get some rest.

Again: are you sure this job is wonderful enough to be worth all the stress? It's not at all uncommon for companies to promise new employees the sun and the moon - and then when the person starts the job, it turns out to be hell on earth, with pay linked to completely unachievable targets, huge expectations of unpaid overtime and a culture of bullying. These companies need a constant stream of gullible new staff, who they don't care about, to keep things moving, and have a variety of dodges to make sure that the promised good pay and promotions don't materalise.

If she gets a DMP (as the OP would know as they have one also) the interest would be frozen and a small payment made based on her income.

And it's utter nonsense that any job is better than not having a job. Lots of jobs are either worthless or the workplace is so awful that the stress of having to work there does severe and lasting damage to mental health.

What you could do, OP, is talk to her about whether looking for a different job might be the answer. Bearing in mind that it is a bit easier to get a new job when you already have one.

I think you’ve got a very hard time on here OP. You actually sound like a really good friend who wants the best for your friend and can see that this new job is a massive opportunity that likely won’t come around again if she gives it up too quickly. She may well end up regretting it big time.

This is the worst time of year to re enter the world of work though. The mornings are so cold and dark, as are the afternoons, so she’s gone from spending loads of time with her DS to probably feeling like she hardly sees him at all. It’s a massive life adjustment for her and must feel overwhelming, especially with the awkward things she witnessed.

I’d remind her that she will have a few extra days off at Christmas to enjoy with her DS and to look forward to that to keep her going, and then from January the days will gradually lengthen again and it won’t feel so bad when she has some daylight time to spend with her DS.

Encourage her to book a few days leave a couple of months into the new year as something to look forward to might help as well.

I think it’s really none of your business. Different people have different priorities, struggles and things that give them a sense of purpose. She doesn’t have to live her life the way you would.

She’s a single mum. Being a working single mum can be absolutely miserable and exhausting. Try to understand here perspective and be empathetic. Telling her what she should do in the situation based on what you (think!) you would do in her situation is of no help

Most likely she did something stupid at the party rather than witnessed something and think she might be sacked.

I was working FT and commuting as a single mum of a 4 and 18months old (newish job too) and not help from family. It is hard, but not hard enough to give up a good job when you have that level of debts (which Ididn't have).

I think she is making very wrong decisions that she will come to regret, but nothing you can do, it's her life, her choices.

It’s exhausting going back to work let alone when a single mother; when you’ve got the commuting, the pick ups etc and all that extra layer of worry.

I’ve always struggled going back after maternity leave and I have a DH around!

So I would be a listening ear to your friend. Maybe she wants a moan, maybe she isn’t actually going to quit. She’s going through a dramatic change and it takes time to adjust.

Just listen and be sympathetic and if she’s got sense I’m sure she’ll come to her sense.

@beadyohfeedme It sounds like you've been incredibly supportive and offering her practical help is very kind.

Its hard to watch a friend make choices that you know they are going to regret down the line. I would talk to her about it once more and then leave it. You can't do more than that. I think what some people are not getting here is that its all very well "minding your own business" when people make decisions and then they're happy and its never mentioned again. The problem here is that she'll likely leave the job and then end up in a spiral of debt and unhappiness where she'll be constantly venting to you about how miserable she is. THAT is the crux of the issue because what on earth do you say? This is why I'd talk to her once about it, kindly and sensitively express your concerns and then leave it. If she does leave and then ends up miserable I really would just change the subject because otherwise it is just encouraging a vicious cycle of helplessness and hopelessness. There comes a point where excessive sympathy is actually harmful because it reinforces that the person is a victim who can do nothing about their circumstances. Empowering people is actually far healthier and more productive.

People CAN own their own home on minimum wage if they live somewhere not South or London and instead of running up Uni debt and getting pissed every weekend, in their late teens/early twenties they save money for a couple of years.

That's how I did it. I was working from 16 and bought my first house at 18 and no, I'm not a baby boomer I am a Millennial. You takes your money, you make the choice. It's not for everyone.

As for the original OP, it sounds like the friend is overwhelmed and lacking in support. I totally agree in the long run she would be better off sticking this out but I also sympathise. Raising one dc with the support of very good DH and working full time is really bloody hard, I think anyone doing this alone is super woman.

You should keep your nose out of her business. It always makes me laugh how people call themselves a friend of someone and then act like you.

if she contacts a debt charity, or does it herself online, there are stock letters she can send to every creditor asking them to freeze the interest and accept a nominal amount each month. This applies even if the credit card company passed the dect to an agency- the agency is who she will pay monthly.The nominal amount is what is left after she has put down all her in and outgoings. She is allowed bills n stuff obviously but also haircuts/clothes/ etc.
Whatever is left she has to split between the creditors. it may be £1 a month for each one but they have to and WILL accept it as long as she updates them every 12 months.

The important part here is that there will be no interest building up and one day when her kid is older she can probably make them a one off offer to clear it and it could well be half of her debt if she pays it in one.They will write the rest off.

Vegan they will do all that for you (Payplan) it is really simple.