Let's face reality both options are crap - election

[ChristmasSweet]

Both Johnson or Corbyn are shit options. Both have a lot of downsides. I've yet to find a positive side to either of them. Both lie, both are childish, both will ruin the country in their own unique ways.

Yet there's really no point in voting for any of the others. Snp will never get into power, they are just a wasted vote, as are Plaid cymru, dup etc as they only serve one country. Lib dems are a joke and have been for years.

Yes there is the lovely idea of 'but if we all vote for the lib dems/whoever they could win'. Not really going to happen at this late stage is it? A rainbow coalition is about the most likely scenario, but that didn't exactly work well between the tories and lib dems did it? I can't see Corbyn and sturgeon getting along once she realises he's lied to her. So nothing will get accomplished yet again.

So who the hell do you choose? Which is the least worst evil amongst Johnson or Corbyn?

I actually don't know who to pick. Both suck. Tempted just to spoil my vote now to be honest. Either way the country is screwed from Friday.

So I think that’s a promise your labour candidate can’t deliver.

So another candidate who lies.. Are we surprised? No!

We need to stop letting this myth circulate that it's a two horse race and voting for anyone but labour or the tories is a wasted vote. There's 650 seats in parliament and neither of those parties will get them all. Even if one of them gets a marginal majority, it's better that we fill the rest of the seats with people that have views we agree with as they will oppose any extreme views that labour or the tories have and make it hard for them to carry out policies we don't agree with.

Look at all the leaflets that have come through your door lately and have a look online and vote for the MP standing in your area that you align with the most and agree with their views. That's the only way to vote in my view rather than thinking of the bigger picture

I can't Bertie I'd love to have that solidarity (I am an ex Labour member), but she is deluded.

She is shouting all sorts of oddnesses and her supporters are touting her as The Honest Candidate. As BlueGinger has so easily pointed out, she can't do what she says she will. Though she does say that a Labour government will change planning laws and then she will personally see to it that we get all the houses we need.

That would mean chopping down an ancient forest (they tried that before) and adding to a road infrastructure that can't cope as it is and, because of things like rivers, flood plains, and said ancient forest, can't be improved much, if at all!

The Green hasn't even spoken up against her!!

Doomed!

So help me Jennifer

Which of my candidates would you choose?

I agree, although did have a moment of clarity last night that has helped me decide. I don’t think for one minute that Corbyn can deliver all he promises. I don’t agree with all his manifesto. I can see an argument that he’ll be bad for the economy (although am equally suspicious of Conservative views of economic growth “trickling down” to the poorest. I think Corbyn’s weak, doesn’t like being challenged and doesn’t really understand even what anti-Semitism is - so fails to tackle it.

BUT...I do at least think he has good intentions. I might not agree or like everything about him. I think both major parties have their flaws. The difference is that I believe at least Corbyn wants to make things better. Whether he can achieve it is another matter. Johnson on the other hand, I think is genuinely sociopathic. I’ve come to the conclusion he not only lies. Johnson loves the thrill of knowing he can lie, fuck up, act appallingly, act in his own interest and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. He’s on a power trip of ego and entitlement where he thinks “I could literally eat a baby on live TV and the idiot proles will still vote for me”. Just as he seemingly loves the power trip of “I can look like I’ve rolled out a bin and act like a misogynist arse, but look, I still get to bone my secretary”. I honestly don’t think he cares for one second about improving people’s lives. Running the country, having power over people’s jobs, health, futures is all just a Bullingdon club prank to him.

Labour's manifesto sets out plans to undo the years of Austerity and to make our society fair and just for everyone.
I don't know where you get the idea that Jeremy Corbyn is a liar from? Unless it's the media that is hugely biased by the network of Tory aficionados who make up the political commentators.
Look at his voting record.
Look at his expenses claims.

This country is falling apart, food banks, homelessness, 4 million children living in poverty, disabled people dying, all of this is real. Please vote for a change.

Oh! And if anyone recognises where I am please do join in... maybe we can help each other work out where to place our X

Join the many like me who feel politically homeless.

A choice between keeping the worst Prime Minister ever, or having the second worst ever.

AiryFairyMum

Please stop linking to that Momentum propaganda site. It's bollocks.

I don't know where you get the idea that Jeremy Corbyn is a liar from? Mainly from the same sourcee as I get the idea that Johnson is a liar - his own mouth!

You can take your whole post and change the Labour bias to a Tory bias and the content would be equally vaild.

The problem is that ALL of them are lying, spinning, cheating. We don't have a viable parliament or m/any real politicians.

The choice is not Johnson or Corbyn.

The choice is Johnson or a hung parliament. If we get Johnson with a majority he can push through all his rubbish ideas.
If we get a hung parliament then the politicians will have to rethink and negotiate.

As for which way to vote - that depends on where you live. You should have an idea of the realistic alternatives in your constituency - tactical voting sites can help if you are really confused. Some of these constituencies are likely to be really really close (East Fife had 2 votes in it last time).

The trouble with manifestos is thus... Everyone knows they don't stick to it so they ignore it. So then parties sneak in nasty stuff, because if it's in the manifesto then convention says the House of Lords can't block it. So for example, the current Tory manifesto includes reducing the funding for learning disabilities and autism to £0, and changing how the law works to stop the courts holding the government to account.

So the recent "Johnson lied to the Queen and courts, got caught out and had to recall parliament" wouldn't be able to happen. He'd just get away with it. Which I'm sure for some people sounds absolutely fine but try to imagine your least favourite politicians holding the power to do what they want with no legal recourse.

But those things are in the manifesto, so if they win you'll be told "we have a mandate for this, it was in the manifesto" and there's nothing anyone can do.

I echo checking out your local candidate. Mine's a mysogynist homophobe with a massive majority, so that's fun.

Hi AllSaints I've been there for a few years now. It is most uncomfortable.

The sudden realisation that my local options have all retired, stood down, simply gone away has been quite worrying.

We need to stop letting this myth circulate that it's a two horse race and voting for anyone but labour or the tories is a wasted vote. There's 650 seats in parliament and neither of those parties will get them all. Even if one of them gets a marginal majority, it's better that we fill the rest of the seats with people that have views we agree with as they will oppose any extreme views that labour or the tories have and make it hard for them to carry out policies we don't agree with.

But it's not a myth. The greens don't have a candidate in every area. So even if they got 50% of their people in, highly unlikely, that's only 250ish seats, not enough to win. Plus do we really want them in power?

Snp, plaid cymru, dup, only serve their individual countries. No point there then.

Independents. Says it all really.

Lib dems maybe, but no one trusts them anymore.

It is a two horse race. Its the day before the election, there is nothing that is going to change that now. Come Friday it will either be Johnson, Corbyn or some hash mix of two or three parties.

Also just want to point out as well that the SNP getting the same or more seats in parliament will have little bearing on whether there's another independence vote because they don't get to decide. They need it passed through government to get another vote and you can always vote for them and say no if a vote ever does happen. To vote in the Tories all to ensure an independence vote won't happen when it was the tories that allowed it last time round is just nuts quite honestly. Vote for who will support your area the best, don't base it on fictional, potential, future, might not even happen referendums that you can vote no in anyway!

If we get a hung parliament then the politicians will have to rethink and negotiate. That just means we stay in the current ludicrous stalemate. I don't think anyone wants to continue with that!

Doing fuck all shouldn't be seen as a good idea!

Yes, both options are terrible. I'm just going for the one which will cause the least long-term damage.

My thinking is that Corbyn is extremely unlikely to get an overall majority, and even with an overall majority he's got a maximum of 5 years to mess the country up before we can vote him out again (if he's not got rid of by his own party first).

Johnson on the other hand wants to to make immediate and irreversible changes which will impact us all (Brexit etc) and other changes that will make it harder for us to vote them out (Page 48 of their manifesto).

So to me, as a moderate person who just wants the Government to fuck off and run the country without acting like dicks, it's a simple choice.

Corbyn (at worst) threatens a gradual decline into a situation that's probably not perfect for the country. Johnson threatens to plunge us immediately into problems which could take decades to recover from.

This country is falling apart, food banks, homelessness, 4 million children living in poverty, disabled people dying, all of this is real. Please vote for a change.

Out of interest, what do people think the last 9 years would have been if Labour had been in charge?

I assume Brexit wouldn't be happening at all, but we wouldn't have had a better economy or population to play with, so its not like we'd be living in an unimaginable paradise of 100% employment at better than living wage, free childcare for everyone (even the childfree!), an NHS that couldn't spend all the money it had blah blah blah.

We'd still have had to make very unpleasant cuts to our cloth whoever was in charge. Labour aren't innocent virgins in all this - they've had their grubby hands all over as many nasty policies as the Conservatives over the years.

Christmas, do you know how parliament works? You don't need your party to have the most seats to have your say or oppose policies. When something is being passed, it needs a majority vote. Even if the conservatives get a majority for example, they might have 20 odd of their MP's that oppose a policy then the other seats filled by labour, lib dems, SNP etc will oppose it too. Then it doesn't get passed and the Tories don't get their way. It can be the same in any scenario. You're only thinking about who will get power but in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't matter all that much if they get a marginal majority and the rest of the seats are filled by MP's that will oppose the policies trying to get through government. That's the only way we can avoid either extreme right with the Tories and extreme left with labour

@Bibbidybobbitysplated The level of spending proposed by Labour is the norm in many developed nations, including Germany, and less than more socialist nations such as Finland. It's just that we've become so used to underfunding, we don't know what the norm is anymore.

(That's as a percentage of GDP, so it's all relative.)

@BuzzShitbagBobbly Other countries were in the same position as us after the crash, but they've all managed the situation without repeatedly kicking the poor and vulnerable. The difference is they've not been offering tax cuts to the wealthy at the same time as making cuts to essential services.

YANBU- I seriously can not understand for a country that prides itself on academia, innovations in science, technology, business and enterprise, law and finance that these two have risen to the top! Lets face it one of them is going to be the most powerful man in the UK by Friday morning.... it's crazy. maybe it's time we started encouraging more people into politics???

I fully understand that we should vote for the party not the person but realistically a good proportion of the electorate will be hitting the polling station with either Corbyn or Boris in mind. My own opinion on this argument is that it's crazy to expect the public to ignore the leader of the parties- the parties themselves should have aligned themselves to have 2 solid relatable, non extreme, candidates. I genuinely hate how divided this country has become.

The choice to me is simple. 120,000 people have died as a result of austerity, that figure is from peer reviewed research, it is undisputed. Do you want more of the same? Then vote Conservative. Do you want change? Then vote for whoever will get the Conservative out in your area.

with either Corbyn or Boris in mind

This just shows what a job the media has done on so many people. Call them both by their first name or both by their surname.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-austerity-kill-120000-people

Don't fall for stats, whoever it is that quotes them! There is always ALWAYS doubt when someone tells you something IS THE CAUSE.