All English Mothers are Terrible

[Considermesometimes]

I urgently need some advice.

Our nanny/housekeeper has decided to return to her home country after a nasty breakdown in her marriage. I don't think she wanted to leave the UK but she will find it hard to manage on her own she says. We have been very understanding, supportive and have helped in all ways to get her through what has been a very rocky time for her, she seemed happy with her decision, and talks more positively about her home country now, she used to be very negative about it before, but now seems content with her decision. On our part we will miss her, or at least that was how I used to feel.

But I have been pretty blindsided by a comment she made to me last week, and I don't know if I am being too sensitive. She was telling me about a mother at her child's school arriving with a young baby with no shoes on, it is obviously cold, and she went on to tell me that all English mothers are terrible!! At this I said, that maybe the mother was having a bad day it happens to the best of us, it doesn't mean ALL English mothers are useless, or even that the mother she was referring to was terrible (she only has one child so does not know the stress of school runs with a small baby)
I was quite taken aback, she then carried on saying that my eldest dd (who is 15) went out with wet hair once. I was really shocked as it felt like she was criticising my parenting skills then, in a barbed way. I asked her when this was as I had never seen it, and she said 18 months ago. I felt very judged by her suddenly, and a little unsure of why she is saying these things now. I must admit I feel oddly hurt by her comments.

I came home early today, as I have been feeling really sick and will work from home, as I walked by I saw her deliberately vacuuming up my younger dd's barbie doll shoes, she was just running the vacuum over them very deliberately and they were making a horrible crackly noise as they were disappearing. My dd loves her barbies, she loves dressing them up and the shoes especially, she knows this, why would she do this? To save her picking them up?

My dogs got out at the weekend, and we live on a really busy road, and she just laughed. This isn't at all funny. I find this behaviour odd, as she always loved our dogs.

She has also started arriving late, and leaving early. I have let this go, as we only have six weeks left and I would rather not make things difficult before she goes.

I am sitting here, and I don't know what to make of any of this, whether I am being silly and it is fine, or whether I am right to feel unnerved. She is due to look after all of the dc (and dogs) when I go away for a few days, and I now don't feel comfortable. What do you think of this?

[Alrighteo]

She's not a Nanny. She's a slave.

[Alrighteo]

@Prevegen4U And there is good reason why we have Employment Law in Britain. She has been 'employed' for 8 years. There is due process. Unless of course.................

[violinrosa]

OP, you really have the chance to do something here. I imagine that she is in a panic about her circumstances so can't you help here with planning things? Sit down with her and go through some of the stuff that will help her get a sense of where she is at now and where she needs to be? She will appreciate your support and effort and that alone will give her some breathing space to plan what she needs to do next.

You are her employer and there has to be some give and take. If you help her here, give her a break so she can get her head around her new circumstances and recognise that she has a better future, she will be able to get on with her job. If you haven't had a break in 15 years, can you rearrange the trip for a couple of months after the new nanny has settled in?

I realise that this may go against the grain here, but you have the chance to make a difference or see it all about your needs. She will certainly have had to put your needs above her own in the job, so can't you give her something now?

[CatInTheDaytime]

I agree the wet hair and no shoes thing is probably cultural. I was amazed when our eastern european friend who is a highly intelligent academic had an absolute fit about kids going in the sea because they would get ill from the cold. We were in a big group, all the other kids went in but hers weren't allowed - and she was equally amazed that we would allow it. OTOH go to Iceland and they leave babies out in the garden all day because they say the cold air is good for them.
It's just cultural beliefs and you won't change her mind, but equally you don't have to take any notice.

Aside from that though yes agree with PPs it sounds like you've both had enough of the whole arrangement.

[lifeisgoodagain]

Sounds like a breakdown to me, I would ask her to leave and give her whatever her statutory notice would be, 4 weeks probably. Escort her from the premises because from what you are saying I wouldn't trust her one bit not to steal even. She is probably very worried but she's cold, callous ... babies don't need shoes either unless they are walking (in fact experts say they shouldn't wear shoes), socks however they should wear in winter.

[Blacksackunderthetreesfreeze]

This thread has taken a turn! I wasn’t aware of the earlier thread when I posted.

[messolini9]

I have let this go, as we only have six weeks left and I would rather not make things difficult before she goes.

They are already difficult, aren't they? What with the hoovered-up Barbie shoes, the laughter at the dog escape, barbed comments & overt latenesses.

Either put up with it, or ring an agency for a replacement.
It seems you are going to feel awkward either way, but the latter option closes the situation down faster.

[messolini9]

"All English mothers are terrible" and she is not British - this sounds like a racist comment - or at the least an unacceptable comment, worthy of misconduct/ gross misconduct

Nah. Just sounds like a comment that can be safely ignored for its ridiculousness.

[messolini9]

I have been shocked at how well she has/is executing this, really did not think she had it in her. Not that I am underestimating her intelligence, just the cold hearted way she is going about it. I don't feel sorry for him one bit, but I am not sure I could do what she is doing, even with the very good reason that she has. I can't take someone out like that, it is just not something I could personally do.

Nobody but a sociopath feels that they can, until they are on the wrong end of an abusive relationship. Just be happy that you are not.

[PleasePassTheCoffeeThanks]

The change of attitude is so strange!

However, as a non-english mum, I have to ask: why do you english mums take babies out in buggies with no shoes and more importantly no socks??! My expat friends and I have been wondering for a while...
I wouldn’t say this makes you bad mums though! Different customs, but I am sure I do things that makes you look twice as well

[messolini9]

The difficulty is not finding a way for her to leave as such, but plucking up the courage to do so!

You wont need any courage if you play it right OP. As youve already decided to pay to contract end anyway, just tell her ...
'I know how hard things are so to help out, I'm releasing you from the contract early so that you can focus on your own life, but paying you for the agreed time anyway, as you have been such a help to our family.'

Thanks, bye, job done.

[Greenmarmalade]

It sounds like she could be having a breakdown.

I would not leave my children in her care any longer. Do whatever you need to do to sort this out.

[CatInTheDaytime]

why do you english mums take babies out in buggies with no shoes and more importantly no socks??!

Well I used to take them out in socks and they'd just pull them off and throw them out of the buggy. Pre-walking babies don't need shoes, though I suppose you could add them to try to keep the socks on, but mine would pull the shoes off too. I'd just keep spare socks in my bag so I had them if necessary, but if your baby hates socks, why does it matter? If it made them ill, then all these sockless English babies would be ill, and they're not...

We didn't evolve with socks you know!

[Genevieva]

I think I read your previous thread too.

You do't have to justify saying no to someone who wants to move into your home, let alone someone who wants to bring a child with them. Even without the abuse ex it could be a recipe for disaster. I know some people have live in nannies, but I have never heard of a live in nanny with their own child living in too.

I think you can give her the news without having to unpick all the issues. Say you are extremely grateful, you can see she has a lot on with her impending move and your new nanny has asked if she can start early (white lie). WIth that in mind, you have decided to pay her to the end of her notice period, but let her go now so that she has more time to prepare herself for her big move. You hope to keep in touch etc.

[theconstantinoplegardener]

PleasePassTheCoffee my DC are not babies any more so things might have changed, but I didn't get them shoes until they were walking because it was supposed to be better for foot development to leave them unshod. Socks were a different matter...they always went out wearing two socks, but invariably lost at least one sock while we were out! They seemed to like the sensation of rubbing their feet together, which dislodged the socks.

[Prevegen4U]

And there is good reason why we have Employment Law in Britain. She has been 'employed' for 8 years. There is due process. Unless of course................. .......she's a threat to the family and pets.

[Considermesometimes]

Wow the thread has moved on whilst I have been away.

I will just cover some of the points:

We pay her much much more than the minimum wage, and we pay her a great deal for an overnight stay usually to look after dogs, we don't usually leave the children, but she sometimes babysits. She does not look after the dc during the day (they are at school) so she only needs to care for them for three hours a day for our very short break. We are most definitely not breaching any time limits!
She has nothing else to do, as the house is clean and tidy, she can either go out, go home or do whatever she pleases for almost all of the day. So the plan to go away was fine, and she was looking forward to a break.

Her dh has become a lot better lately, so much so that she was thinking she may go home and they may stay together, she seems much happier. Privately I do not believe he has changed at all, just that he is now worried that once they are home he will lose her for good perhaps. For some time now, she has been okay I am glad to say.

However when her life was difficult with him, we gave her money to keep should she need to head home quickly we did not ask her to repay us, we offered her a bed if she is desperate of course, we have put her in touch with the WA to get assistance, I have sat for hours listening to her, I have spent hours whilst she ran through various plans, I have hugged her and comforted her too many times to list, and I have made her feel cared for with flowers, chocolates, messages and have offered to be there 247 if she is in trouble. I would say that was more than enough actually for those that feel I have not supported her. I absolutely have. She has made her own decision to leave, and made her own plan, one I truly agree with.

So what am I going to do now things have changed yet again? I am going to have to withdraw her hours, possibly with some excuse about the new nanny starting early as helpfully suggested by pp, and pay her to the agreed date of her departure. I will stay in touch with her loosely just to be sure she is okay, and I will ask her to keep in touch and let me know how she is. I came on to find out what to do about my own family, and whether it is safe under the circumstances, the decision for her and her family has already been made (by her)

This has been a nightmare for all of us for ages, and yes the previous years when she was happily married and settled were great, but life never stays the same. I am deeply sad and sorry this has happened to her, but it is not my fault, the real person she should be blaming is her rotten disgusting dh whom has treated her appallingly and ruined her dreams.

Thank you to those that have posted with helpful advice. I truly appreciate it.

[Considermesometimes]

I obviously can not go into what is doing re dh for her safety. I am not sure she plans to truly stay with him, but she def has a spring back in her step. She does have a plan though, a very good one. Not one I could personally do myself, but one that works for her, and good on her. This has been a long time coming.

[Parking264T1me]

If this nanny/house keeper can secure another job live in or live out

Why can't she stay in UK ?

Secondly, if she has paid tax & NI, then becomes unemployed, wouldn't she be eligible for job seekers contributions based universal credit
She can apply on //www.gov.uk once you give her the last day of employment

[Considermesometimes]

parking she wants a divorce and feels she needs the support of her family.

[LoveNote]

maybe her visa conditions mean she needs to be with her husband?

either way, op has to do the best former own family

[crispysausagerolls]

What was the latest incident? I feel like I’ve missed it, unless you’ve not said?

[Alrighteo]

She'll have been paid cash in hand.

[Genevieva]

She is an EU citizen and I very much doubt she has been paid cash in hand, since nannies are entitled to employer national insurance and pension contributions, just like business employees.

It sounds like the OP has gone above and beyond to be supportive when some people would have decided that all this drama was more than they could cope with. People employ nannies to make their lives easier, not to bring lots of emotional trauma into their lives. Sadly, the OP's nanny is so mixed up by her own unfortunate circumstances that she is finding fault with people who are not responsible for her pain, whether it is the mother who chooses not to put shoes on her baby's feet or the OP who won't let her move into the spare room on a permanent basis. This has resulted in the nanny losing her judgement and behaving in untrustworthy ways.

When someone is responsible for looking after your children you have to have absolute faith in them. It isn't enough to think that they probably won't do anything neglectful in their last six weeks of employment. Once that trust is gone, it is gone. The OP could sack her for some of the things she has done, but is planning to keep things pleasant by paying her while not expecting her to come to work. That is very generous and, in my view, the right way of dealing with this very sensitive situation. I just hope the OP can find replacement childcare for the interim period.

[Branster]

It’s a very unfortunate situation for both the nanny and yourself OP.
She sounds like she is a capable woman with a good head on her shoulders if she has clear plans. You’ve done the best you could and she has been a good nanny to you and she is a hard worker.
As things are changing, be gentle but firm and this way she can follow her plan of going back to her family and hopefully spend Christmas with them.
Her negativity could also be a coping mechanism, by verbalising negatives about theUK, the move back might be easier for her. It was probably the same about her country of origin when she moved to the UK. It can’t be easy to move back and forth. In all fairness most countries have negatives to both outsiders and those born and raised there.
Perhaps there shouldn’t be that many details about her on here though.
You’ll feel better once you part ways because you simply lost your trust in her. She’ll probably feel better to be as far away from your home as well.