To think this child needs a specialist school

[Londongirl86]

Hi all. I am concerned about a child at my child's school and her behaviour. A week ago my DD was attacked by this child at lunch. She rubbed food all over her face and punched her in the back. The teacher said she has problems and that doesn't excuse it but she's dealt with.

I went home happy enough and told my DD to keep away from her. Over the last few days two other parents knew straight away at the gates who had hurt her. The reason being their children had also been hurt by this child. She also gets angry in class and they have to evacuate there kids.

My friends child was hurt by this kid Thursday. And apparently she also kicked mine again. so we reported it yesterday morning. She came out of school yesterday and told me this child smacked her drink out her hand and stamped on her friends foot. The teachers said nothing to me after school. My child said she was taken indoors for being naughty.

Through conversation in the playground at least 7 kids have been attacked by her. She has problems and we know she's fostered. She clearly isn't able to cope. What is really upsetting is the teachers allowing her out at lunch to harm others. They said it's hard to watch her. You would think they would be concerned she will put a child in hospital if she kicks or pushes them wrong.

My child's only been at school 2 months. She's still settling. I'm annoyed I'm in a position now where I need to keep having words with the teachers. I don't want to become that annoying mum that's pestering them every day. But I also AM not comfortable with my child being put at risk by a violent child who is struggling.

What should be happening with all this? Surely she should be constantly with an adult or at a specialist school?

I'm a teacher with several children like this little girl in my class this year. I've had several parents complain to the head teacher about what has happened. The one boy has extreme autism doesn't have a 1-1 although he should because we don't get funding and the school can't afford to pay for one. We have applied for an EHCP but that can take 26 weeks to come through. I have given up my lunch time to be with that child to make sure he still gets time to play and be a child like the other children as the heads decision was to make the child miss his lunch and play all the time and have to sit inside doing nothing, which didn't sit right with me. Yes children got hurt but this child never did it on purpose they don't know how to communicate things and he didn't understand why he wasn't allowed to play.

This little girl sounds very lost and not secure in where she is and who is around her. She is struggling. She needs support but without funding the school will find it extremely difficult.

YANBU, OP
Wish people would quit with the guilt-tripping
Of course you're going to discuss this with other parents and you have every right to.
No child should be subject to violence at school.
This child has, no doubt, had a dreadful start in life, but it's not for your kid to suffer as a result.

Well it's the equivalent isn't it. If I ce around your house everyday. Waited for you to go to your bin and kicked you to the floor. I'd be arrested. Four year olds feel fear and pain.

I am going to do what the pp have suggested. The reason I'm responding to you is because you are claiming we are gossiping. We have spoken to teachers. We have spoken to our kids. We are not behaving like witches around a couldron.

I'm not violent. I don't want anyone to beat me up. So therefore I don't want or expect my little girl to be experiencing it for weeks on end. She's incredibly brave to go eat her dinner in a big hall and go outside to try and play knowing that child will potentially harm her. If I knew someone who likes hurting me was outside I'd stay in. I feel you have got me all wrong.

I've not denied it. I do think she needs to be in a specialist school. Or home educated of all else fails. She at the least needs an adult supervising her at break. An adult who can remove a chair from her before she throws it. That's my opinion. It won't change.

No child should go to school to be assaulted - special needs, fostered or any other excuse. No child should be scared of being hit by anyone.

If this were a post about seeing someone rub food into another person's face there'd be uproar. It is no different. The school needs to protect the children from this child and to protect this child from herself. I had a child like this in my class when I was at school - someone who threw furniture in a temper. I was 13 years old and it upset us. I have no idea how I would have coped if I were in primary school.

Having said that, those who don't like the emotive language have a point. It is a safeguarding issue and you need to bring it to the school. Every single time. Go in, ring up, send a letter. Bombard them. Make them do something and copy it to the board of governors every time. Because they have to discuss every safeguarding issue sent to them. Keep them busy and make them sort it out. Be THAT parent. Who cares? They obviously don't care enough about the other kids in their charge so put pressure on them to make them care - or make them deal with the child.

That way you won't get the wrath of those who don't appreciate your lack of empathy for a troubled child but are happy to sarcastically call your child precious. My child is precious too and I think you've been very tolerant. My school would have been sick of the sight of me by now if it had happened to DS.

Good luck. Your child does not deserve this (any more than the other child does before the 'oh, that poor little girl' brigade start up their chants). The difference is everyone seems to be protecting the other child at the moment and that needs to stop.

You have zero grounds to decide what education is best for this child. None.

The fact you think the solution for a vulnerable child is to remove her from the education system is awful to be honest. It may well be that the best place for her needs is mainstream school. It's for the professionals who know her full profile to make that call (though looking at SEND threads on MN you realise quite quickly that there are lots of people who think their opinion on a child trump the child's educational needs).

And you did deny it because another poster pointed out it's in your title.

Your only concern should be documenting issues linked to your child and holding the school to account. You should be absolutely on the ball on that. Take whatever complaints are required to ensure the school follow their safeguarding duty to your child.

Leave speculation about the other child out of it. She doesn't need comparing to an animal or pub violence.

She doesn't need a specialist school she needs the right support.

My daughter was attacked by a similar sounding child when she was in reception, she tried to strangle her and gouged her neck. She did similar to a lot of other children and picked on those smaller than her. She had a 1 to 1, but the 1 to 1 didn't do lunch duty.

A few years on she no longer has the 1 to 1 and has no problems.

How would she be home schooled if she is in foster care? To be a LAC she's obviously undergone trauma.

@LondonJax thank you. That must of been awful for you to go through. Glad you picked up on the sarcasm of precious child. Maybe if the child they are defending was precious to her parents the poor little thing wouldn't be so troubled. But yes a mum who cares for her child is just being a gossip.

I will report it again Monday thank you. I am going to keep a record. It would be an outrage if an adult did this to an adult. I'm more shocked that people are thinking it's ok as she's suffering. Nobody says that about the drug dealer who mugs the 80 year old or the drink who punched someone into a coma with angry. Before anyone starts no I'm not comparing her to a drunk. I'm saying violence is violence. Nobody deserves to be attacked and harmed. Especially little kids who no longer have their parents to guide them.

@inwood I agree. But in a few years time she potentially could seriously harm many kids. Or damage many with fear. It seems so unfair that children have had that safety removed from them. They no longer can be safe to enjoy playing and having fun. I'm glad your DD was ok. You must of been so upset

I would respectfully argue that the point the OP made about home education is a reasonable one.

If isn't being in managed in school, then I doubt whether a single adult (or even two adults) on duty 24/7 will be able to cope. It'll simply be pushing the problem out of sight until the foster placement breaks down.

But we don't know how the child is in the foster carer's home. It could be the case that she copes very well one to one. My DD1 (now 10) has had anger issues and lashes out regularly when her younger sister is at home but one to one she's a completely different child. (They're both adopted and also birth sisters.) As I understand it, looked after children have to be placed in school. I think there needs to be flexibility on this.

I know it's scary for the younger children. DD1 used to lash out a lot at DD2, who is 3 years younger, a similar age gap. But there really has never been actual damage to DD2 or to me. (Despite her trying to attack me with a rounders bat once.) It has improved, because we've learned to deal with it more effectively.

I do agree that there's been far too much pomposity on this thread. It's very scary when you're worried for your child's safety. And in my case it was when my 2 DDs were at home! For the OP, she can't do anything except press for the school to safeguard her child and others, which they're not doing.

Surely an obvious starting point would be to supervise this poor child better? He's obviously overwhelmed and needs to have closer supervision.

Apologies, I see now that this child is a girl, not a boy.

"She also needs to be kept away from innocent kids that don't deserve her attacking them like a wild animal"

Well this speaks volumes really doesn't it.

I have a child with SEND and a child without. I've been in both sides of this scenario. Some of the coments on here really highlight why SEND is so underfunded. Nobody cares until it affects them. When it does they want the problem gone.

My son is innocent just like yours.

He isn't a wild animal.

He is home schooled now because there is nowhere for him that doesn't cause him pain and distress.

If I have to home school why can't OP home school too.

No it isn't bloody fair. It isn't fair for anybody.

It’s not ops responsibility to worry about the child who is doing the assault. Her responsibility is to her own child. The school is responsible for the safety of all the children and is letting them all down by allowing this to happen. Report every episode, to governors if necessary. No one would put up with being assaulted at work and this is actually worse as, unlike an adult, a child has no power to walk away from this situation.

This does highlight the stigma attached to looked after children. The foster carer would have had to say something, as the child with them calls them by their first name, not 'Mummy'. And they have to correct people who speak of them as the child's mum. They also have limitations on how far they can go in communicating with the school. Because the social worker has PR and not them.

It's very different for us as adoptive parents. We would be able to decide to homeschool a child that wasn't coping with being in school. And that very likely should be an option on the table in this case, too. But because she's a looker after child, it isn't.

The school is likely to be doing everything they can behind the scenes to get the right support for this child and they are unable to share exactly what with parents for confidentiality reasons.

Funding is having a massive impact on schools. It can take months to get the correct support in place for a child and the funding needed for that support. Eg for one to one support. There is no spare money for situations like this.

I had this in my class. I gave up my own lunch times to try and support the lunch time staff and so did the head.

Every day there was an angry line of parents wanting to speak to me, demanding the child was excluded. I understand the emotion. I have children
but it really didnt help the situation. It's really not that simple for the school - they cant just exclude children or move them.

By all means keep complaing but dont assume the staff are doing nothing. They are dealing with this behaviour day in, day out. I am sure they are desperate for more support! Write to your MP. Vote against cuts to schools. These children need support and it is being denied them.

Hi OP, I haven't read the whole thread but have skimmed your posts. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Very sad for the little girl of course but as you say your child is your priority. I would make an official written complaint to the headteacher. In it make clear that you want to know what steps are being taken to maintain the safety your child. I would advise in the letter that should the issue not be resolved you'll be making contact with OFSTED.

@lifecouldbeadream great post.

Thanks @pemberlyshades

she needs support - she needs an attachment aware school, suitable support with behaviour based on attachment issues not punishment and reward, she needs people who understand where her behaviour comes from - mainstream school - good ones, are capable of doing this - and their is funding to support this.

also it's not typical behaviour of a'' LAC kids - how insulting - it common behaviour in emotionally damaged children

also the school and the social worker can request an EHCP as can the virtual school.

Poor kid - I'm sorry your daughter has been hurt - I really am - My eldest was the child that lashed out - it was awful, embarrassing, shameful and I get it - but the school should be helping

there is - sorry!

also this Vote against cuts to schools in SPADES - vote on Thursday!

I'm more shocked that people are thinking it's ok as she's suffering
Has anyone actually said that violence is ok?
Or is this more "disagree on some of what I've said therefore I'll claim you are accepting violence and saying it's fine"?

Just this keeps coming up as a claim when the whole thread is full of people saying to raise the issues properly with the school and take formal complaint action if needed.

I’d be more concerned that it’s public knowledge that she’s fostered and that what sounds like a large group of parents from her class gossiping

This. You say it's not like a witches coven OP but it sounds a bit like it. Stop discussing this girl and concentrate on your own child. Clearly she has a problem but your job is to bat for your own children. It is the school's job (and her foster carers') to find a solution.

And yes - if you reading this thread and you are worried about SEN provision and school funding generally you know how to vote on Thursday! Funding won't magically help everyone but it helps a lot. And even though your child may currently be the perfect child who never gets into trouble you never know if and when that may change and you may be looking for expert support.

@LolaSmiles I've listened to everyone else. Apart from you. You are only commenting on here to be miss perfect. You are REFUSING to take it in that the CHILDREN came out of school and said it to us. So as mothers we spoke to our kids and the teachers. We heard as a group on a couple of occasions that the same kid had struck again.

I have a brain that's why I can work out when someone needs more than what they are given. Taking out cutbacks and staff levels. THIS CHILD NEEDS SUPERVISING OR SUPPORTING FOR EVERYONES SAKE. but if it makes me a witch around the couldron to have an opinion when my own child is as risk I will have one. It's called being a parent and protecting your own. Believe me everybody including you has an opinion. Everyone on this site will talk to other people for advice and support. Every parent will tell there child that some kids are just not nice at some point. I'm sure someone at some point has discussed my child. That's life. Its not like we whisper to people hey come over here, Evie has been beating the four year olds up I bet she's autistic. I've said on Mumsnet it seems she's not in the right place or doesn't have enough support.

The Psychiatrist who was involved initially stated that as the dc had gone into foster care they were no longer in a stable enough situation to have treatment & they would delay treatment/support until the dc was settled

This is pretty decent therapeutic advice. In the same way you wouldn't start a medical treatment if you knew the physical reality of the individual meant that the treatment would be more like to fail than succeed you shouldn't start therapy until the situation gives it a decent chance of working.

However that doesn't mean nothing can be done as a pp says.

she needs support - she needs an attachment aware school, suitable support with behaviour based on attachment issues not punishment and reward, she needs people who understand where her behaviour comes from - mainstream school - good ones, are capable of doing this

It is totally understandable that you don't want your dd to be a punchbag and you should highlight the safeguarding risks to your dc.

It is a rotten situation that schools have no money to manage situations better. But staying in a foster carer's house or attending a special school are not the answers for a dc who has experienced trauma. ( any dc in foster care has experienced trauma as they have been removed from their family)

Gosh this is hard, on one side of course you don't want your child to be hurt, although I think you've gone hysterical with the whole "beaten up every day thing" an it's not doing you any favours.

On the other side, this little girl is clearly struggling, it's hugely possible she herself was physically attacked and that's what she's playing out and the school know.

However they need to safeguard the kids.

Because you've gone a bit hysterical it's hard to tell how bad these kids are getting hurt, you make it sound really bad, stamping on their spines, beaten up etc, and I am not sure it's st that level.

Overall difficult. But yes all kids need to be protected, inc the little girl.