To think this child needs a specialist school

[Londongirl86]

Hi all. I am concerned about a child at my child's school and her behaviour. A week ago my DD was attacked by this child at lunch. She rubbed food all over her face and punched her in the back. The teacher said she has problems and that doesn't excuse it but she's dealt with.

I went home happy enough and told my DD to keep away from her. Over the last few days two other parents knew straight away at the gates who had hurt her. The reason being their children had also been hurt by this child. She also gets angry in class and they have to evacuate there kids.

My friends child was hurt by this kid Thursday. And apparently she also kicked mine again. so we reported it yesterday morning. She came out of school yesterday and told me this child smacked her drink out her hand and stamped on her friends foot. The teachers said nothing to me after school. My child said she was taken indoors for being naughty.

Through conversation in the playground at least 7 kids have been attacked by her. She has problems and we know she's fostered. She clearly isn't able to cope. What is really upsetting is the teachers allowing her out at lunch to harm others. They said it's hard to watch her. You would think they would be concerned she will put a child in hospital if she kicks or pushes them wrong.

My child's only been at school 2 months. She's still settling. I'm annoyed I'm in a position now where I need to keep having words with the teachers. I don't want to become that annoying mum that's pestering them every day. But I also AM not comfortable with my child being put at risk by a violent child who is struggling.

What should be happening with all this? Surely she should be constantly with an adult or at a specialist school?

@LolaSmiles would you be happy with your four year old being forced to the ground and kicked in her spine regular by a child who the teachers can't control? I doubt it very much?

You can look into changing your child's school op

i am surprised they have 7 year olds mix with reception children at lunch time

Infants all play together

I'm not saying it's being done to be cruel.
I'm saying that a group of parents discussing another child to the point where people are deciding theyd be better home educated and their place in care is being discussed is unkind.

Add to this the fact that you're on about the school being in trouble from heads banging awkwardly, now you've decided your children are "traumatised" etc it does suggest a gossiping culture.

Keep raising concerns about your child with the school. Keep asking how they will safeguard your child, ask about supervision etc. Just stop playground gossiping between yourselves.

Just tell the school when it happens to your child, i am sure they will have it under control.

Reception children area straight out on the playground with all other infants in my ds school.
I'm not really liking it either theres a 7 year old teaching my 5 year old to swear & fight but there's not much I can do about it except tell my ds to not play with him.

There is a lengthy process to go through before her legal guardians can choose to move her to a special school.

I am sure that she school will already be pushing for this.

In the meantime, they will not receive any additional funding for a 1:1 or any other support.

Anyone working with this child will have been pulled from another child/class that needs support.

Lunchtimes are hard to cover because staff are also entitled to their (unpaid) lunchtime, and schools rely on their midday staff for supervision.

Obviously midday staff are not equipped to deal with such a challenging child, and have lots of children to watch.

Things will be in place to manage the behaviour as best they can, but they are under no obligation to talk to you about that.

I completely understand your frustration and you are right to raise your concerns with the school, I just wanted you to be aware that it is highly likely that they are already acutely aware that the situation is untenable and are taking the necessary steps.

would you be happy with your four year old being forced to the ground and kicked in her spine regular by a child who the teachers can't control? I doubt it very much?

OP. It was obvious from your first post this was going to become your response to anyone who challenges you.

I have said SEVERAL times that the school need to do more and the child needs support.
I have said SEVERAL times that you should do this by keeping the focus on how the school will safeguard your child.

Thinking that parents should spend time asking about their child and spending less time gossiping about a vulnerable child in care who may well have a number of issues is NOT saying the child's behaviour is ok.

This is going to be one of these three where if an OP isn't told they should be fuming and go to Ofsted then people are accepting violence. 🙄

your communication with the school, and tbh your opinions on the matter, need to be focused on demanding that the school must keep your child - and every child - safe and protected from harm. it is totally inappropriate for you to diagnose that the best solution is to put this unhappy, violent and disturbed child into a special school. That child needs to be placed in accordance with her own best interests, not the best interests of your child, because frankly this other child is the more vulnerable in this situation. she could well have experienced and witnessed physical and/or sexual abuse, been denied love, care and security, and clearly doesn't know how to cope. that is tragic but solving her situation isn't your concern. she will have a team of professionals whose job it is to work out the best way to meet her needs and help her to heal. if she doesn't have any specific learning difficulties then being in a mainstream school could well be the most appropriate setting for her to learn civilised behaviour. that is not and never should be a decision that you have the slightest involvement with. your sole concern wrt this issue is how they will keep your own child safe. that they are failing in this is unacceptable and by all means complain assertively every time this happens and demand that the school must do more to protect other students including your own child. but stop suggesting they do this by removing the more vulnerable and damaged child - that is not your call.

At my daughter’s school they have staggered break times to keep reception separate from the older children at lunch and other breaks. You could see if they would be willing to do that or have a separate area for reception children to play in. They also use year 6 children to play with reception and keep an eye on them.

The school won't have funding for extra support. It is really difficult to qualify and takes months of meetings. What they need is evidence. If your child is hurt send a letter stating the facts. If the school can go to a meeting with a pile of letters showing this poor little child is causing incidents every breaktime they can argue for a one-to-one and may get it in the end. I am sorry your dd and other little children are being hurt, that is not fair, but after nearly a decade of cuts there are not the funds or the specialist places to meet the childs needs.

ElluesPichulobu
Well said.
They need to focus on raising issues keeping their child safe from harm, not gossiping in the playground, not speculating about another child's need, not weighing in with their opinions on another child's education.

As she is under the LA’s care they should have applied for an ehc needs assessment if one is necessary. However, she could still get 1:1 or more targeted support from the schools SEN budget before that process is completed.

None of that is your place to comment on. Stop gossiping and focus on your kid. Ask the school what they’ll do about safeguarding. Anything else is literally none of your business.

Complain every single time.The school needs all the ammunition they can get so that funding can be forced out of the LEA.

I can't understand why she hasn't had a few exclusions by now.

It really is so difficult to get an appropriate placement for a child with additional needs and so the children are placed in schools without the knowledge and resources to give them the support they need. Schools have no money, LAs are rationing any resources so frankly unless you have a parent able and willing to quite probably throw thousands of pounds at independent reports and educational law firms then it is incredibly difficult to alter anything.
Please be kind about this child she has undoubtedly had a tough time and still is. Report any incidences that happen to your child to the teacher who will hopefully be making a case for additional support for the child to the Local Authority.

@Beveren only legal guardians can apply for an EHCP, foster carers are not legal guardians

Not true, @SimonJT. Not only can foster parents make the initial request, schools have a duty to do so also where necessary.

At our school it took 2 years and an eventual permanent exclusion before other children were safe. Realistically there is not much more the school can do to keep your child safe. There’s no money to magic up an extra member of staff (and also, staff have a right not to be hit/punched/bitten too). You could move school but no guarentee that the same won’t happen there. LA was shit. If the school diverts another member of staff to look after the violent child, that’s other children not getting support. Every time a classroom has to be evacuated, that’s disruption to learning. And children learn to be fearful in school, and that school is not a place where they can be safe.

It’s shit, but I really don’t think the impact on other children is given enough weight in these situations. Nor the impact on staff, who get it in the neck from everyone.

Hope you’re not planning on voting Tory next week, OP....

It doesnt matter what awful life this poor little girl has had she is attacking other children and that must not be allowed to continue. Meet with the Head and demand to know what she is going to do to keep your child safe and unharmed.

Either way, it's not for the OP or other parents to start telling people how to support their children.

@LolaSmiles, I didn't suggest that OP should tell anyone anything. I suggested she be referred to appropriate sources of help. Your assumption that the school will already be doing what it should is a dangerous one to make, particularly given the history of other children in the school being attacked.

Buscake I would be amazed if there is a school in the country that has spare cash lying around for a 1:1. Small schools are in an especially shit position - we only have 3 TAs for the whole school.

We did recruit (several times....) for a specialist 1:1. One lasted an hour and a half before handing in their notice.

tbh the fact that she is fostered is irrelevant in this situation.
take the word out of the equation.

I can't understand why she hasn't had a few exclusions by now.
Because maybe excluding a young child with most likely a huge range of issues is unlikely to help correct their behaviour?
Maybe there's not a massive push to exclude from infant schools?
Outcomes for excluded students are worse and outcomes for children in care are worse, so why would doing both at the start of school be a good thing?

It may well be that this vulnerable child needs extensive support to learn how to cope and behave so they have better life chances and they need the school supporting them.

I do agree on reporting every time though. It gives the evidence required to push for funding.

Unless you are an Ed Psych (or similar professional) involved in the care of this child, your thoughts on the most appropriate educational provision are sheer speculation and gossip. For all you know this school has been carefully selected as the most appropriate, for reasons that you are (quite rightly) unaware of.

Yes, certainly raise the issue of safeguarding your child with the school.

But don't get involved in a campaign to get rid of this poor child. DD has been on the receiving end of this, all quite uninformed (because, frankly, it was none of their business).

Push hard for reception age children to be kept separately from whatever year group this child is in. They can stagger break and lunch times if need be. It is not acceptable given these young children have only just started school. In my children’s schools they really keep an eye on reception in this way. There can be issues with older children even if no special needs/trauma etc involved.