To think this child needs a specialist school

[Londongirl86]

Hi all. I am concerned about a child at my child's school and her behaviour. A week ago my DD was attacked by this child at lunch. She rubbed food all over her face and punched her in the back. The teacher said she has problems and that doesn't excuse it but she's dealt with.

I went home happy enough and told my DD to keep away from her. Over the last few days two other parents knew straight away at the gates who had hurt her. The reason being their children had also been hurt by this child. She also gets angry in class and they have to evacuate there kids.

My friends child was hurt by this kid Thursday. And apparently she also kicked mine again. so we reported it yesterday morning. She came out of school yesterday and told me this child smacked her drink out her hand and stamped on her friends foot. The teachers said nothing to me after school. My child said she was taken indoors for being naughty.

Through conversation in the playground at least 7 kids have been attacked by her. She has problems and we know she's fostered. She clearly isn't able to cope. What is really upsetting is the teachers allowing her out at lunch to harm others. They said it's hard to watch her. You would think they would be concerned she will put a child in hospital if she kicks or pushes them wrong.

My child's only been at school 2 months. She's still settling. I'm annoyed I'm in a position now where I need to keep having words with the teachers. I don't want to become that annoying mum that's pestering them every day. But I also AM not comfortable with my child being put at risk by a violent child who is struggling.

What should be happening with all this? Surely she should be constantly with an adult or at a specialist school?

i am surprised they have 7 year olds mix with reception children at lunch time

Pretty common place to have Year 2s and Reception mixed in the playgrounds, especially by this stage of the first term. Ours are only separated at lunch time for the first couple of weeks, with a gradually mix the week after - one day they go in with y1, next y2, etc.
We don't have the playground space to keep them fully separated all the time, especially at lunch time which can't be staggered.

Poor little girl.

Sad that the school is saying there are not resources to help her, the local virtual school are usually very generous in providing funds to mainstream schools to help LAC .

I think the headteacher of the OPs school needs to clamp down on the playground harpies who are gunning for what is clearly a very disturbed, unhappy child who has probably had huge disruption in her life. I understand that other parents are upset that their children are being hurt, but their lack of empathy and humanity towards an unhappy child is mind boggling.

@LolaSmiles you have said the same thing hundreds of times. Nobody is gossiping about this child or why she's fostered. Her bluddy foster parents stood at the gates openly telling us shes their foster child. Nobody is discussing what we think is her issue. Nobody has said what's best for her. But it's a FACT the current situation is not working for her. It's also not working for the other 300 children in the school.

The more children she harms. The more children are going to notice. The more children are going to see. The more children are going to comment. The more adults are going to hear. The more parents are going to worry. Maybe parents are speaking about her. But only in a concerned for their own children. Which is fair enough. Parents need to be aware. One child was threatened not to tell her mum or she would hurt her again. So thank goodness parents are aware.

My friend's son sometimes tells me things but not his mum. It's normal. In these situations children need to know and be told by adults what to do. They need to be aware it's safe to Tell us. Several parents are concerned and it's through the children opening up at the gates. I said to the three kids we walk home with yesterday. Have you had a good day. They all said no... Said child hurt us again. So yes parents then talk amongst eachother. Do you expect us to refuse to acknowledge what they have said?

Nobody is discussing that child's personal life. we are discussing our kids and basically saying the facts. She needs more help and support. If they don't give her it and people's children continue to get hurt then more and more complaints will go on. Eventually that child will become the intimidating child that bullies everyone. That's sad for her too. But it's fact. She is frightening little four year olds. So forgive us if you think we are being unprofessional. Sometimes you have to establish what happened by talking to other parents and children that were there. Get over yourself. I've said enough times now that these ladies are my friends. One was close to crying Thursday about her little one being hurt. He was afraid to come to school. So yes we had a conversation about it. Do you think I enjoy having something like this to talk about. Because belive me I don't. I want my already shy child to bloom. Not have all her confidence knocked out of her three months in. Stop focusing on the accusation of gossip and consider all the kids involved!

@viques I am not lacking in empathy for her. If you read my posts. I feel for her. I think she deserves a better situation and more support. At no point have I called her name's or slagged her off. She is a little person who is struggling but hurting others in the process. No matter what she has been through it doesn't warrant violence on little kids unable to protect them selves. One day when she pushes someone over they will split their lip, knock teeth out, bite their tongue or get a nose bleed. One day she will kick someone in the face or the head. She is extremely violent and they evacuate because she throws furniture. Imagine if little Tommy gets a chair thrown at the back of his head. Is that ok because she's had a hard life. No? She needs someone there to stop her outbursts. She needs alot of help and support. She also needs to be kept away from innocent kids that don't deserve her attacking them like a wild animal. My heart hurts for her but four years olds can't grasp any of this. Is my DD supposed to say yes she beats me up but she's troubled?

I do wonder if some posters saying that there’s no empathy have ever had to deal with a child with serious issue. In our cluster of schools, we have had a child who has broken bones of a teacher, a child (in year 1) tell a teaching assistant (who had survived breast cancer) tell her that she was a fat bitch and it’s a shame the cancer didn’t kill her, several children who destroy the work of others, a classroom where they can’t have scissors out as a child will try and stab others and cut hair, in addition to the run of the mill chair throwing etc which necessitates classroom evacuation.

No matter what the underlying reasons behind those behaviours, other children should absolutely not have to put up with witnessing that behaviour as a one off, let alone as a daily occurrence. We couldn’t show that behaviour to our children if it were in a film, as it would be rated 15+, yet we expect our children to put up with it.

she needs to be kept away from innocent kids that don't deserve her attacking them like a wild animal

OP. Your empathy oozes off the page like acid.

@viques so does yours about the children being beaten up

LolaSmiles, I completely agree with your posts. Of course the OP’s child should be safe at school, as you have said. The teachers and other staff certainly need to implement effective strategies to ensure that happens (and these strategies should not include isolating or excluding the 7-year-old). But the other parents’ speculations about a vulnerable, traumatised child are inappropriate at best. It’s depressing to see such things in this day and age.

@MoltoAgitato exactly. People are missing the point. The girl in question is struggling but of she's in a class of 30 then that's 29 children probably wary of her. Some have probably lost their love of school. Some are probably scared to play outside. We send our children to learn and play. We expect the odd drama. We don't expect them to be at risk of injury. Plus what can a teacher do to defend herself or a pupil.

@DotForShort ok so if this was your child. You'd say to your child that child's suffering.

It's totally disgusting of parents to say this child's not coping or needs help or a specialised school? Are you saying she belongs in this situation? She can't handle the playground. Yet she's sent out everyday. She's rarely caught hurting people as they can't watch her all the time. So what do you thinks best for the parents to think? Nevermind if she whacks my kid because she's had a harder life. Don't tell me you wouldn't confide in friends and be concerned if it was you.

Believe me im blaming the system not the child. It's wrong! I just hope it's not my child she puts in a&e when she gets angry next week!

YABU to think children with emotional or learning difficulties should just go to a special school and be kept away from your precious child.

Have you asked to have a meeting with your child’s teacher/the Head?

I feel so sorry for this girl. She must have been through something quite distressing and difficult given her age and behaviour. Can you talk to her foster parents?

We had this sort of thing happen.

A girl in dds school was put in the other class to Dd.

Apparently there were a few children who were pulled out of the school in the other class before at the end of year 1 this child was put in dds class.

She made a beeline for Dd and we ended up moving dds school because this girl was threatening Dd with a knife and the HT would only say it was a community school for the community and wouldn’t remove her.

As soon as Dd left the girl apparently targeted friends Ds and he was removed.

By the end of year 3 they had to rejig the classes because the class the girl was in was down to something like 12 pupils and the other class had 26.

Then more pupils left from the class this girl was in. Don’t know what happened but she did eventually leave.

There was something not right about this child as her main topic of conversation was death and hoping to see her grandma die.

Unfortunately schools tend to be useless about this sort of thing and short of pulling your dd out there is very little to do

@Orangeslices

My child is precious to me thankyou. I love her and I'm not going to let her get beaten up everyday and feel frightened. Your obviously another one who only sees on side. All the children in this situation matter. Including the child harming others.

She can't behave how she needs to behave in a mainstream school. I'm 30 and yet to be pushed on the floor and kicked. When it happens to innocent adults in the street it makes the paper. Yet our precious four year olds don't matter and fuck how they feel because this child's struggling. She's making others struggle too. Her problems are not my kids problems at the end of the day. But as an adult I sympathise with her situation. I will always put my child first because I don't want her hurt. Glad you'd cope so much better with your kids being beaten up though. You must be cold!

When the other kids are expected to deal with the violence then this child's case does become everyone's business sadly. Of course parents are going to have a view on what's happening.

@Oliversmumsarmy goodness me that's awful. It's so unfair that other kids have to leave a place they were once happy.

It's shocking and I can't believe it's ok to leave them unattended knowing they are unpredictable and capable of harming. Some of the people on here can only feel for the child doing it and don't have any sympathy for the innocent (still babies) bring subject to violence I've seen men carry out down the pub.

Did the school not get questioned properly about how they handled so many leaving? I bet they have a poor Ofsted x

Nobody is discussing that child's personal life.
You've said yourself you all know she's fostered. You've said yourself you've discussed the child in the playground.

You've said there's no gossiping, but then openly admit this is being discussed in the playground.

On this thread you've denied saying the child should be in a specialist school... When the title of your thread is saying this child should be in a specialist school.

You've since gone on to talk about how traumatising kicks are for your child but then in later posts talked about this child attacking like a wild animal and suggesting that it could be your child that gets put in A&E.

You are absolutely making judgement and speculations about this child in a way that is unpleasant.

Hold the school to account for safeguarding your child. I 100% agree with the need to do this and go formal where needed, but let's stop pretending that parents who discuss a child's care situation and describe a vulnerable child as an animal aren't gossips.

I think you just have to address how it relates to your own child really. My DS had a kid in his class go through some really difficult behaviour - he was physically aggressive, racist, verbally unpleasant. But the other children in my DS's class, while they were on the receiving end of this, mainly had the personal resources to cope with it. It helped that the little boy in question was quite physically small compared to many of the others. Some parents at the time got quite gossipy, but I remember just thinking 'does your kid actually care?'. Some kids did, so fair enough, ask the school for support! but most (my DS included) didn't enjoy being whacked, but were very calm about the whole thing. When I went on school trips and saw it in action, it felt as though my DS and his friends (6 at the time) was just years older than this troubled little boy, rather than being his victims. I sort of felt that on balance, it was no bad thing for my son to deal with the situation. Obviously, if your DD is struggling though, you'll need different strategies.

Some of the people on here can only feel for the child doing it and don't have any sympathy for the innocent (still babies) bring subject to violence I've seen men carry out down the pub.
Oh give over!
Nobody has said violence is ok.
Nobody has said it's fine for the school to do nothing.
Many of us have said that you're well within your rights to hold the school to account under formal complaints for safeguarding if and where they have failed in your duty.

Some of us just object to comparing a vulnerable child with a wild animal, suggesting they're going to be putting others in A&E etc.

Now you compare the actions of a probably traumatised child to pub violence. But of course, you and your friends aren't the types who'd gossip or speculate about another child.

I'd go fucking mental if my 5 year old was being attacked by an older child. Use the word safeguarding, ask what their plan is to keep your child safe. Not only are they completely failing to support a vulnerable child, they are leaving much younger children terrified of going to school for fear that someone will harm them. That is completely unacceptable. If they don't have the funds to support her then she shouldn't be there. I know that sounds harsh but what happens when someone gets seriously injured? They only have to land wrong or get pushed on the stairs. What about when one of these reception children tell an older brother or sister who get sick of seeing their little sibling coming home with bruises and begging not to be sent in and then decide to beat the tar out of her? It will happen eventually or she'll pick on someone her own size and come off a lot worse. It's not just other children, her behaviour puts her at risk too.

I'd go fucking mental if my 5 year old was being attacked by an older child. Use the word safeguarding, ask what their plan is to keep your child safe
As would I and almost every poster on this thread.

7 pages in and almost everyone has suggested to the OP that she raises the issues of safeguarding her child with the school and formally complains if the school don't adequately respond.

“I just hope it’s not my child she puts in a&e when she gets angry next week!” No need to catastrophise quite so much.

Of course you are concerned about your child, and of course you have every right to expect that the teachers will ensure the safety of every child in the school. It sounds as though the teachers and/or headteacher are responding reactively rather than proactively, as well as being too passive in their approach. But surely the solution to such a situation is not an automatic call to remove the child from her school, and I certainly hope the school will not bow to pressure from parents who don’t have all the facts.

Londongirl86 it went from outstanding to in special measures

Omg. @LolaSmiles

Her foster parents told us she's fostered.

My friends were stood in the playground with me when children came out of school. One child said so and so rubbed food in DD face. Her mum said to me she hurt her last week too. My best friends child was harmed by her and we walk home together with another mum who also said her child was attacked for a whole week each day and her child was too scared to tell her. Another parent from the school had to tell her what her child was hiding!!! This is not gossiping. This is our kids telling us they are being harmed.

I was taken to one side by my child's teacher. She said she has problems but that doesn't excuse what she did. So the teacher informed me this child has problems.

I have said on here she needs more support and she would be better of in a school with professionals who understand her more and have more time for her. No it isn't any of my business but she's hurting my child so it kind of is! Obviously my brain is going to look at the situation. It isn't telling me this girls a little brat or a so and so. It's telling me she's struggling. She's not happy. My brain can work out she isn't living with her mummy and daddy. That's incredibly sad! I love my kids so it breaks my heart to think of anyone not having love and stability. Gossip would be saying actual things about this kid and what's wrong with her. Nobody has ever said we think she's sexually abused or autistic or ADHD. We don't know. We don't care. What we do know is she is aggressive! I bet you plenty of times in your life have discussed someone else in some way. I am sure every child you meet isn't your favourite person. I'm sure you've had a chat with friends about your problems. If you haven't then I feel sorry for you. I will always try and support my child and my friends kids too. As I've already said if they are going through something we will talk about it. What we don't do is tear a little girl to shreds.

You've compared this girl to an animal though. You've likened her behaviour to pub violence.You've said she should be home educated, that she should be in a specialist school (but then denied it).

If you have concerns that she's aggressive in her behaviour then discuss it with the head and the school, not in the playground. It's not rocket science.

Literally there's pages and pages of loads of posters all saying to raise specific issues and complain formally and mention safeguarding of your child, pages and pages of the same advice... still by page 7 we're getting comparisons to pub violence and claims that people don't care about the innocent babies affected by this situation.

@LolaSmiles

Well, the fact is, she shouldn't be. At the first few instances I'd have removed her and sought help. And, before you start, I'm aware of how difficult it is to get into a SS. I've dealt with it in my own family. However, I've also been on the receiving end and it's disgusting to let a child be subjected to that. Especially very young children. Disgusting.

The school is doing a dreadful job and if they can't support her, then she should be transferred to a school with better resources. Not keep her there, unsupported, where she'll continually bully and hurt others. She will end up putting someone in A&E. She's 7 now but soon enough she'll be 11, possibly still taking out her anger on 5 year olds. I pity the poor parents and child who gets pushed and smacks their face off the tarmac, inevitably.

At the end of the day, the foster parents volunteered that information. As did the teachers. No one would have known otherwise. So, that wouldn't be my problem.