To think this child needs a specialist school

[Londongirl86]

Hi all. I am concerned about a child at my child's school and her behaviour. A week ago my DD was attacked by this child at lunch. She rubbed food all over her face and punched her in the back. The teacher said she has problems and that doesn't excuse it but she's dealt with.

I went home happy enough and told my DD to keep away from her. Over the last few days two other parents knew straight away at the gates who had hurt her. The reason being their children had also been hurt by this child. She also gets angry in class and they have to evacuate there kids.

My friends child was hurt by this kid Thursday. And apparently she also kicked mine again. so we reported it yesterday morning. She came out of school yesterday and told me this child smacked her drink out her hand and stamped on her friends foot. The teachers said nothing to me after school. My child said she was taken indoors for being naughty.

Through conversation in the playground at least 7 kids have been attacked by her. She has problems and we know she's fostered. She clearly isn't able to cope. What is really upsetting is the teachers allowing her out at lunch to harm others. They said it's hard to watch her. You would think they would be concerned she will put a child in hospital if she kicks or pushes them wrong.

My child's only been at school 2 months. She's still settling. I'm annoyed I'm in a position now where I need to keep having words with the teachers. I don't want to become that annoying mum that's pestering them every day. But I also AM not comfortable with my child being put at risk by a violent child who is struggling.

What should be happening with all this? Surely she should be constantly with an adult or at a specialist school?

Even when parents want a special school, unless a child has significant learning difficulties it is difficult to find a place for a child. Places for children with behavioral needs are few and far between at primary school age. Many of these children end up being excluded with nowhere to go.

@soapboxqueen I'm sorry if it came across that that I was judging your child as being badly behaved. My DD1 is like that at home so I know that that isn't the case, it's about a child being overwhelmed and not coping.

I don't know what the solution is, at a time when schools are underfunded. The best suggestion on this thread is to separate reception aged children from older ones; if that happened then that would at least protect the youngest children.

@lizzie0869 thank you. There's been some rather unpleasant comments on this thread, some now deleted, and I think my hackles are raised so I appreciate your comment.

I think there are things that could be put in place, such as staggering breaktimes, that could be put in place but obviously it's difficult to know without the specifics of the school.

In the short term, having staff with her in unstructured times such at lunch would be beneficial. I've eaten with my students before in order to make sure some children were supported. Though that means I got no break, it isn't suitable long term and I wouldn't ask anyone else to do it as they aren't paid for it.

I think the main thing is for the parents to keep pressure up on the management team.

You've made some good suggestions there, especially the staggered break times. I'm sorry about the experience you had with your DS's school. Schools are sadly very poor at understanding SEN. We've had to fight hard to keep DD1 on their radar, though we've been helped by her having hearing aids, which is a disability that they can see.

There clearly needs more training for teachers on how best to look after and teach children dealing with SEN or trauma.

@lizzie0869 I agree that training is woefully lacking in SEND. Most teachers aren't given the support, have to work things out on their own or are given support plans that cannot be implemented or are not funded. It's a joke.

I'd say the picture for trauma is even worse. Most don't recognise it as a thing unless there is a big back story. Trauma from being in care or being ill or bullying or something from home or from being in school aren't really recognised.

Even when it is, it's more like 'just be careful with them' rather than anything protactive.

I'm retired now, but even when I was still working, cuts were starting to bite, and we had to force the LEA's hand by permanently excluding a child, with the parents' agreement. In that case, we had happily and successfully educated his siblings, but he was another case entirely.
There was also subtle pressure not to "make waves" by raising the awkward, expensive topic of children having additional needs; I came to dread the phrase, "Let's see how s/he settles...…."
I have heard of schools trying lunchtime exclusion as a temporary intervention; would this be an option, as it is the looser controls triggering the problems?

That's true, and even more so with adoption. It's assumed that an adopted child, especially if they went straight into foster care and was then adopted, they assume that all is well. It really isn't that simple.

When you said you don’t understand why ‘the teachers’ let this child outside, just remember that it isn’t their choice. SLT make decisions on things like this, teachers have to abide by them (and are usually the ones on the receiving end of parental anger over a situation that they may or may not agree with!).

twosheds a lunchtime exclusion is certainly possible. Not sure if that is impacted by the child being in Foster care.

I think it would depend on if the school wanted to go down that route and what the LEA policy is.

SimonJT

It’s standard behaviour for any LAC child

I'm surprised you only got dug up for this comment once tbh.

I was a LAC. I was in a children's home as well as foster care and it certainly was not standard behaviour to be violent, lash out at other children and throw furniture!

In the home there were a few kids often on lock down. But the majority of kids there just didn't behave like that.

In fact it was often us being bullied at school for being in a home.

Your blanket statement breeds stigma towards LAC, I hope you dont go around saying things like this in RL.

I'm surprised you only got dug up for this comment once tbh
Daring to comment on the language adults use to describe children who don't fit the "nice innocent" children box for some on this thread leads to claims that you're accepting violence and saying children should be allowed to be harmed.

Sadly this thread highlights some awful attitudes to children.

But that's not fair if that means 30+ children in her class have to suffer and be placed at risk everyday of her temper. We can't wait months or years on the hope something will improve.

Moving her to a different school would just put different children at risk.

For her to move to a specialist school, a group of well qualified professionals would need to record that her needs could not be met in a mainstream school. There would need to be a suitable specialist school in the area that took children with just the right profile, could meet her needs, including academic needs and it would happen to have a space. The LA would need to be willing to pay for the placement and the foster parents would need to agree that the move was in her best interests. Then, to prevent her hurting the other children there, who are likely to more vulnerable than yours, she would need additional funding for one to one staffing, which is unusual in a specialist school.

It isn't fair that any children are being harmed by others. It isn't fair that she has had such damaging experiences. It isn't fair that a multitude of children have additional needs that can't be met because education as underfunded. Lots of things aren't fair.

It isn't fair that you have to put pressure on your child's school to keep your child safe or that, if they do start to provide one to one support for her, something else in the school budget may have to be cut.

It doesn't matter what's fair. The best place for this child to be educated is likely to be in your child's school and the best outcome is likely to be that the school SLT make some difficult budgeting decisions and pay for additional support for her.

Whatever they do, you need to stop going on about her needing to be in a specialist school. Her needs and your wishes are very different issues.

Instead of complaining about the behaviour of a vulnerable child(ren) people need to be complaining about the current state of the education system due to our current government and cuts. Ina well funded education system children with SEND but not intellectual disabilities would he more then suitable and happy in a mainstream setting and there certainly wouldn't be this much issue. The issue is not the child but that LA and education as a whole is trying to work with impossible budgets and lack of support. 🤦‍♀️
So instead use your time constructively by fighting for better support for children who need it in mainstream and better funding for schools and educational needs as a whole.

You do need to keep going in and complaining as this is the only way the other child will get support. Saying as parent of child who needs support and does not get it adequately.

Lolasmiles

Daring to comment on the language adults use to describe children who don't fit the "nice innocent" children box for some on this thread leads to claims that you're accepting violence and saying children should be allowed to be harmed.

Not entirely sure what you mean??

She needs compassion and nurture! She needs adults who understand attachment based difficulties and who are responsive to that. She doesn’t need farming off to a “specialist” school, FGS

She needs to be stopped from hurting other children. Full stop.

I agree. No ifs or buts. Other children should NOT be getting hurt.

bunny
Quite a few of us said all children should be safe and that school should be held to account, but it's wrong for adults to speculate about a vulnerable child and weigh in with what they want to happen, and it's wrong to compare a child to an animal or pub violence.
Unfortunately, the response in places to this was essentially "so you think violence is acceptable and children just tolerate it".

LolaSmiles

I know what you said, I was just unsure how you managed to link what you said to my post, or even the post I linked to. And I did go back and re-read incase I missed something

Dropped my child off today. Didn't get chance to speak to her teacher as another mum was reporting the child for hurting her child on Friday. See what today brings!

@Londongirl86 you really need to get to the senior leadership team. Use email to document everything that happens and that it's been sent to the school.

I will do. Thank you. I'm going to write things down today.

bunny
I think it was your rightful challenge to the idea that "that's just how LAC kids are" where it's more adults making assumptions and judgements about kids who they lack the professional experience and/or knowledge of the issues to offer anything constructive.

I think.

(As an aside I also hate it in schools when some trainer or consultant comes in to inform us what we should do for "our LAC students/our SEND students" as if they all have a tick list of strategies that we can just apply at will to any child with that label without considering the individual child and their needs).

I don't judge all children with problems as being a problem or say what's best for them. How is it going to be best for this child to stay at this school with her current behaviour. How is that best for half of the four year olds in my child's class who have daily attacks from her. This isn't about being ignorant about what's best for her. I don't have any right to decide what's best. But even my DD says if she can't be nice she shouldn't be allowed to play should she mummy. That's because my four year old understands consequences and she knows if she's unkind she has to be removed, say sorry or be encouraged to the do the right thing. If she continued to do the wrong thing she wouldn't be going to the park to hit little Jonny anymore. At some point she has to stop going out at break time until the correct things are in place for her because it's 100% unacceptable for children to be harmed by anyone.

I am writing it all down to hand in at the office after school. Let's hope we can get this solved before another child is harmed.

I'm going to leave this post now. I do appreciate everyone's views. It's been an eye opener and you have helped me understand cut backs and how the system is failing. I have alot of sympathy for any child in the system and wasn't meaning to refer her to an animal. I was trying to explain her violence is extreme and not safe to be around. I meant by comparing her to adults punching eachother on a night out that death and serious injury occurs when people react without thinking with violence. Don't presume that a small child isn't yet to be put in hospital by her. It is likely going to happen if this isn't nipped in the bud fast. I sympathise with anyone who is going through this with a child with similar behaviours. I don't judge. I certainly don't believe children should be shipped out a school but something should be changed if they can't get this under control. It shouldn't get to the point where other kids are moving schools to get away from her.

Thanks again for everyone's response.

@LolaSmiles

You're absolutely spot on. It's very much the same with adopted children. For example, with DD1, it's always been assumed that it's therapy she needs and that it's all about attachment issues. I don't doubt there are some attachment issues.

But she also had a head injury in foster care at six weeks old, which caused her hearing and sight problems. DH and I have always suspected that she also needs to be assessed for other things, like autism and FAS, as her birth mum drank through the pregnancy. But because she isn't far enough at school she doesn't qualify for an EHCP.

DD2 (7) doesn't have these issues, though she's developed some obvious anxiety. Adoption doesn't affect all children in the same way.

Also my DSis has a DSS, and 3 DC with her DH, the youngest of whom (DS) is adopted. There are no obvious issues at all, he's thriving and adored by everyone (kind of like my DD2). But there is also an older DD (10) and a DS (8). He very clearly has SEN and they've been pushing hard for him to be assessed. But they can't involve Post Adoption Support because he isn't adopted. He also doesn't get Pupil Premium, unlike his younger brother and my DDs, though there's no evidence that DD2 really needs it.

Something is very wrong here.