To think this child needs a specialist school

[Londongirl86]

Hi all. I am concerned about a child at my child's school and her behaviour. A week ago my DD was attacked by this child at lunch. She rubbed food all over her face and punched her in the back. The teacher said she has problems and that doesn't excuse it but she's dealt with.

I went home happy enough and told my DD to keep away from her. Over the last few days two other parents knew straight away at the gates who had hurt her. The reason being their children had also been hurt by this child. She also gets angry in class and they have to evacuate there kids.

My friends child was hurt by this kid Thursday. And apparently she also kicked mine again. so we reported it yesterday morning. She came out of school yesterday and told me this child smacked her drink out her hand and stamped on her friends foot. The teachers said nothing to me after school. My child said she was taken indoors for being naughty.

Through conversation in the playground at least 7 kids have been attacked by her. She has problems and we know she's fostered. She clearly isn't able to cope. What is really upsetting is the teachers allowing her out at lunch to harm others. They said it's hard to watch her. You would think they would be concerned she will put a child in hospital if she kicks or pushes them wrong.

My child's only been at school 2 months. She's still settling. I'm annoyed I'm in a position now where I need to keep having words with the teachers. I don't want to become that annoying mum that's pestering them every day. But I also AM not comfortable with my child being put at risk by a violent child who is struggling.

What should be happening with all this? Surely she should be constantly with an adult or at a specialist school?

It's sad to see this still happens, I'm a mother of a son who used to be the one hitting out, my mum and I often went to supervise at break times (I worked shifts) which helped my sons behaviour. Sadly as funding is rarely available the school could not provide the resources needed. We tried to get him into a special school but there weren't enough places. Eventually I home schooled him, he's now a very responsible, capable adult. I found the playground supervisors inadequately trained, they often didn't even watch the playground and chatted amongst themselves, I often stepped in when other kids behaviour became risky. No advice to offer I'm afraid our education system does not always meet every users needs

I don't think the majority of the public realise how truely broken education system is or the associated support fields in the NHS.

It is totally fucked.

Vulnerable children and families basically have to work out out for themselves.

OP send reports of incidents to the head. Get other parents to do the same.

I often wonder if or can SEN provision will ever go back to a reasonable state? My son is now 21 and was statemented from Y1 to Y11, but it was as he was leaving secondary school is when things really started to get really bad and seems to be getting worse

My borough has 3 SEN schools 2 are for moderate to severe and the other is for severe learning difficulties and they have a waiting list and whilst it’s not impossible to get support, it’s usually a fight, and by the sounds of it this girl doesn’t have anyone that will fight her corner. As we don’t have all the facts it is hard to say where she should or shouldn’t be placed, yes she may be hitting and kicking but academically she is fine, in that case for example none of the schools in my area would be suitable as she doesn’t fit the criteria, even my son that had several SpLD wouldn’t fit the criteria for those schools so it’s not always as straightforward as putting the child in a specialist school as it depends on what the borough has, if they have any reciprocal agreements with neighbouring boroughs, the severity of the childs needs and so forth.

My nephew ended up going to a private SEN school paid for by the LA as they did not have the provision to meet his needs, at his average sized primary school but insisted they could despite the LA SALT and independent EP saying he needed classes with 10 or less and he wasn’t making any progress at the current school. It was a very stressful fight and had to go to tribunal, but it worked out.

I had hoped things had improved - but - in the past I was closely involved with a dc who had trauma issues. The Psychiatrist who was involved initially stated that as the dc had gone into foster care they were no longer in a stable enough situation to have treatment & they would delay treatment/support until the dc was settled - unbelievable, nonsensical but it happened. I discussed discretely (no names etc) with another foster carer who told me that she had heard of this happening before to other dc in care. I bet the foster carer is fighting tooth & nail to get other support but is finding it as hard as people in the education sector. health care support social workers the probation service are all having an equally hard time loosing funding & thus staff. Op you have the right to wonder what alternatives there might be & discuss anonymously alternatives & if one small dc talks to another parent about your dc being hit by another dc I would want them to tell me - that isn't gossiping. You don't sound outraged & angry to me you sound concerned & I think that is reasonable. Your only recourse is to write a confidential email/ letter to the head teacher stating your concern & asking how can they help to make sure that your & other dc are made safe & to ask for an appointment to discuss this (ie leave a written trail before you have meeting).

& don't vote Conservative (I know your not op just putting my pennyworth in)

@mumwon Still happening in many areas I’m afraid. My son is adopted and post adoption support would not provide play therapy etc until he was two years in and ‘settled’. Frustrating finding good quality private therapy is very very difficult.

Thank you for your help everyone. I don't know the state of the system as I'm new to the school side of things. My child is doing ok so far at school and doesnt appear to need any extra help at the moment. So I don't know anything about Sen etc.

I am not meaning to shoove this little girl in a special school and get her out the way. I actually presumed that these schools that children attend when they struggle, emotionally, mentally etc would have the trained people in them. People who have the time for her. People who understand more about her situation. Places thst have safe places for her to to aswel.

As you have said we don't know why she fostered. Whether she had useless parents, she was abused, she was simply not wanted or she was too hard for her parents, she's still a little girl and it's heartbreaking to think she doesn't feel loved etc.

My child and others are entitled to be safe at school. Getting the occasional shoove or whatever is apart of life. Kids fall out etc. But this isn't that. She's going outside and attacking innocent kids. She said to my child I'm going to punch you then she smeared food on her and thumped her on the back. My daughter is shy. Can you imagine how frightened she felt when someone confronted her like that. Nobody helped her. Adults were not around. The teachers had to wash my daughter's face. She ran behind a bush to hide. She would of been wanting me at that point to protect her.

I will write down everything up to now and see if anything happens next week. Then I will pass it onto the head. If this is still happening in several months I will look at moving her. It's a nice school other than this and at the moment they have outstanding behaviour.

I refuse to agree we have been gossiping. I'm glad the kids talk to us and don't bottle it up in fear.

Thanks again for your replies. Alot of good pointers.

OP this is outrageous. I am cross on your behalf. All parents need to get together and complain to the head teacher/governors. Yes, this girl nightj have issues but your prioroty is your DD and you don't want her to have a rough time in her first year

OP surely you get the state of most systems now in this country education NHS social services etc (all of whom play a part in this). They are on their knees there

What I can say is that the bar for removing a child of her age into foster care is high. Very high. The circumstances may not be known but they will not be pretty

Sadly it is true now of a lot of schools

Poor girl. Her foster parents need to apply for an EHCP so she receives the support she's clearly in need of. Despite her background, your children have a right to feel safe at school and it's clear they don't around this girl. You need to get together as a group and write a letter to the school outlining your concerns.

@threesecrets I know. Two other parents have complained this week after their children were harmed. Yes she clearly does have problems and that's very sad, but as you say our kids don't deserve to be her punchbag. It's a huge deal for kids to be attacked for the first time. My DD never knew people did things like this until all this. She now has learnt people can hurt you. That's a huge deal for her. It's a huge deal for me too to know I'm sending her into this situation. She should be able to eat her dinner and play outside safely.

@Quartz2208

Good point. I guess it will be shite like all the other services. I just never thought about it.

There must be some way she can at least be allowed to play indoors with a ta and another child at lunch. They need breaks but surely they can stagger them. They are taking a huge gamble on other children's safety at the moment.

nly legal guardians can apply for an EHCP, foster carers are not legal guardians.

If she's a foster child, then presumably the state is considered her guardian therefore SS should initiate an EHCP.

The reception children at our primary school all have Year 6 'buddies' that watch over them at lunch and break if that system isn't in place at your school might be worth mentioning.
Also I would be volunteering for lunch time playground duty, parents do this at our school. Obviously don't know if you're in a position to do this.
I feel sorry for this girl, of course I do but if she was attacking my daughter every day to the point my daughter was getting hurt and scared I would be extremely vocal with school about how is this being dealt with and ultimately would consider moving schools. Interesting to knoe whether the 7 year old is attacking same age/older kids or just targeting the little ones.

There needs to be help in place as there’s a duty of care to all. Sadly all schools are underfunded and without an ehcp nothing drastic can be done. But I think reception should be separated from year 2 so at least at playtime the other younger kids are safe.
I don’t think there’s an easy answer here, sadly.

You can’t expect a year 6 to give up every break and lunch to look after a reception child though. We had that system too but it was more an ad hoc thing and def not watching their ‘child’ every minute. They had their own lives in their playground.

Only a parent without a child with SEN can be so glib about specialist schools. Do you know how hard it is to get in? Places are like gold dust.

She probably needs extra support in school.

@JustDanceAddict
Yes I do agree (my ds was one of the year 6s last year)
But at least they sit next to them at the actual lunch table so the food smearing thing wouldn't happen, and they keep a general eye.

Didn't have to look far for the idiotic comment, you clearly know nothing about education over the last forty years. It wasn't the Tories who wanted all children to be in mainstream schools, whatever the price paid by other children, the PC view prevailed, as ever.

The comment you are referring to wasn’t idiotic. Keeping children with SEN in mainstream is not the cause of this issue. What has caused this issue is keeping those children in mainstream without the requisite level of funding to support them.

The Tories want it both ways - to save the money on special school places, but also to fail to provide the (lower) amount of money to educate the children properly in mainstream.

You can jump on here with knee-jerk outrage because your pet party is being criticised if you like, but it doesn’t help sway anybody’s view if you present a half-baked idea of what is going on.

I agree the policy has been to keep SEN children in mainstream and simultaneously cut funding to support them. It leaves the school in an impossible position.

My Dd has a place at a SEN school. There is a Two Year wait to get in.

Every open day I have been to at a SEN school has been mobbed by anxious parents.

Once again, if you vote conservative then this is what you have voted for.
The Tories do not care bequeathed not use state schools.
It's not rocket science.
Fair enough if you don't care about the state of state education but for God's sake of you do then stop bloody voting for this!
It's the same as those who moan about the NHS,

At the end of the day, that child is hurting your child. Your child is your priority. Honestly, I'd be looking at a new school. This one is doing sfa and it's your kid that's getting the brunt of it.

Also, to everyone complaining about OP "gossiping"-

Sorry, no. If my child is being hurt repeatedly by another, older child, you're sure as hell I'll want to know if it's a targeted attack on my child or whether it's multiple children. If a parent is discussing how their child was hit, yet again, by X, I'll be responding. Especially if the school are failing to do anything (which they evidently are and it's a disgrace).

You're a pretty awful parent if you sit back and do nothing when your kid is being punched in the back. You should want all the facts and be making your voice heard.

Honestly, I wouldn't care less what the circumstances are if a child was physically hurting mine being years older, rubbing food into their face, etc. It's disgusting. Every child has a right to a safe learning environment where they can flourish. That doesn't mean my child gets beat up because 1 kid has various problems and they're let away with it every day of the week so my kid just has to deal.

OP is right. A child is going to be seriously injured soon. It's ridiculous it's even got this far.

speaking as a parent of a chlid who gets violent in school (and yes, I am working on it he has ASD), it's not always so simple as "well she shouldn't be in that school then, she should be somewhere for kids like that!"

If there was somewhere available that was better suited, no doubt she'd be there. I know my child would be.

I feel for you and your child, but please aim all your anger at the lack of staff to suitably supervise this child to the head teacher & those who hold the purse strings, not the poor kid.

Pepe
Or to put another spin on it, if it was YOUR child dealing with trauma, or had a history of abuse, or history of neglect, or complex SEMH issues, or SEND needs would you feel happy knowing other parents have been voicing their opinion on how your child shouldnt be in that school? Should be home educated? Should be in a specialist school? What about if the potential trauma in your child's background was a talking point enough with others? Is that ok? It's a serious question because it's that sort of stuff that parents on the SEND boards on here go through day in day out and that's part of what's going on here.

It's absolutely possible to raise concerns with the school about keeping all children safe without playground gossip. Hell, I'd be raising merry hell with school if they were repeatedly allowing children to be attacked and would be following every complaint option available including formal complaints where the school were failing on their duty.
I wouldn't be musing over a vulnerable child's situation that has absolutely nothing to do with me and deciding what I think should happen for the child whose needs I don't know and I'm not qualified to pass comment on. The OP can say they aren't gossiping all they like but when it's "we" talk in the playground and "we" know she's fostered etc there are parents doing more speculation about a vulnerable child than is required in this situation and it isn't nice.

Cross posted with you wornoutboots.
You're spot on.

It shouldn't be about adults discussing a child and deciding they don't think they should be educated in a certain way.

All complaints need to be done appropriately through the right channels and need to focus onbthe right things.