To think this child needs a specialist school

[Londongirl86]

Hi all. I am concerned about a child at my child's school and her behaviour. A week ago my DD was attacked by this child at lunch. She rubbed food all over her face and punched her in the back. The teacher said she has problems and that doesn't excuse it but she's dealt with.

I went home happy enough and told my DD to keep away from her. Over the last few days two other parents knew straight away at the gates who had hurt her. The reason being their children had also been hurt by this child. She also gets angry in class and they have to evacuate there kids.

My friends child was hurt by this kid Thursday. And apparently she also kicked mine again. so we reported it yesterday morning. She came out of school yesterday and told me this child smacked her drink out her hand and stamped on her friends foot. The teachers said nothing to me after school. My child said she was taken indoors for being naughty.

Through conversation in the playground at least 7 kids have been attacked by her. She has problems and we know she's fostered. She clearly isn't able to cope. What is really upsetting is the teachers allowing her out at lunch to harm others. They said it's hard to watch her. You would think they would be concerned she will put a child in hospital if she kicks or pushes them wrong.

My child's only been at school 2 months. She's still settling. I'm annoyed I'm in a position now where I need to keep having words with the teachers. I don't want to become that annoying mum that's pestering them every day. But I also AM not comfortable with my child being put at risk by a violent child who is struggling.

What should be happening with all this? Surely she should be constantly with an adult or at a specialist school?

It's not easy to to move to a special school. Schools only have so many ed psych hours so approx 1 child can be assessed a year. Parents have to agree. LEAs are notoriously bad at issuing ehcp. It's long drawn out process that can take well over a year if not more.

My child goes to a special school and comes home with injuries from other children often. Right now she's got a massive scratch on her face.

I guess the only difference in this chikd going to a special school is that a different set of children will get hurt.

The child definitely needs more support but a special school isn't necessarily the place for it.

Then special schools have to have a place as many have had their funding reduced so have had to cut places.

It isn't right that kids get hurt in these situations. The burden of meeting this girls extra educational needs should fall to the adults, not the other children who end up feeling like punching bags.

lauryloo

If children are going to get hurt no matter what happens and everything else is equal (as in, there is no benefit to placing the child in a specialist school) then I would respectfully argue that the point the OP made about home education is a reasonable one. It’s my belief that it is not appropriate to insist on children remaining in environments where they are physically hurting others, even when they can’t help it.

But actually I thought the advantage of a specialist school was supposed to be that it provides specialist help. The child should be able to access more targeted therapies, be in smaller groups, be taught by more relevantly trained staff etc. Does that not happen?

We had the same situation in our school a year ago.

New child very violent and aggressive to her classmates. Moved to our school for unknown reasons but clearly struggling.

Yes, my child was pushed, shoved, had things taken off her. I did speak to the school asking them to watch my child.

Yes, most incidents happened during lunchtime when the children outnumber the midday staff and can't concentrate on certain children.

But a year on everything is different, the new child is fully integrated in the class and displays none of the behaviour she did on arrival.

Differences for this child being as follows.
She has a good supportive family who were working with the school, your child now has foster parents to fight for the child you are talking about.

Our school worked with the new child, certainly some things were noticed by my child. Time outs with activities, certain fidget chewey which seemed to reduce the biting. I am sure a massive amount of support was given which we are unaware of.

I asked the child around for tea, hopeing to encourage positive interactions under my supervision. Play dates were hard work but positive.

As a small community we tried to welcome her mum and although in the early months the childs name came up in conversation, it was more with frustration that we worried the school was not protecting our children well enough.

This situation can be turned around but only if you all pull together in the same supportive direction.

Don't gossip about this child, it is not relevant that she is in foster care.

Invite the child home for tea try and see if building friendships at school help the situation.

Talk to the school from the 'protect my child' point of view but be patient.

Be positive, our school does not have a lot of resources but they managed to help the new pupil at our school and there is every reason that the child at your school can settle in too.

Good luck, I know how hard things are when your child comes home reporting an injury or damage to her belongings.

Be positive, be kind, I am hopeful that next year you will be able to post a positive update.

I’m sad for the poor child too. I’m also sad for OP’s child, and all the other children she is hurting. Their first experience of school is being tainted by fear of being hurt. They are potentially being traumatised too - maybe not as much as the perpetrator is, but being attacked by her may well cause them ongoing psychological problems.

Op, I agree with pp that in tackling the school you should focus on your child’s safety, not the other child. Make sure you use the word ‘safeguarding’ and make it clear they are failing to meet this obligation. Be on them constantly like a dog with a bone until they sort some way of separating this girl or shadowing her at playtime. If nothing happens in short order, I would go to your Mp or the LA and demand action.

And as pps have mentioned, don’t vote Tory on Thursday. They - and those who vote for them - are responsible for the lack of funding that drives the lack of adequate response from the school on this.

@allington yes my thread. I've not said that in the playground an nobody else has either. I feel she is not in the right environment. As someone above has just stated she wouldn't go to work if someone might attack her. Why should my four year old.

@churchandstate agreed. We all can sympathise that some children have horrendous lives, circumstances etc. That doesn't mean other children should have to accept being kicked etc. Its not ok for adults to behave like that so it's not ok for children.

For the 100th time @LolaSmiles nobody is gossiping. Our children have quite rightly made adults aware of the situation. If my friends want to talk to me about their children being attacked because they need to talk then they can. This isn't abit of gossip. This is parents worried their little ones are going to end up injured. I've also told my DD to look out for her friend and get a teacher if this child attacks them. I suppose that's me giving bad advice too. The kids need to look after eachother because the dinner ladies are missing most of it!

And as pps have mentioned, don’t vote Tory on Thursday.They-and those who vote for them-are responsible for the lack of funding that drives the lack of adequate response from the school on this.*

Absolutely. I would be interested to know how many people who are outraged with this thread are planning on voting Tory.

Having words with teachers unfortunately won't achieve anything, they will no doubt be struggling with this too.

Email the head with what has happened to your child and your concerns, and ask them how they intend to protect your child. Then email agin with every single incident that occurs, and advise the other parents to do the same. It won't change anything short term, but it will enable the school to build up evidence so that they have plenty when it comes to battling with the LA for extra funding and support for this child.

As the child is looked after, there will be extra funding for them. You need to do whatever you can to make the school consider that extra support at lunchtime is a good way to spend that extra money, and although you can't suggest that, if lunchtimes are becoming a big enough problem for the head, in that they're having to deal with lots of upset parents because of it, then hopefully they'll take it upon themselves to use the funding in that way.

@tolleshunt. Thank you. I will make sure I keep chasing them. Thank you. Thanks got your balanced fair response. You are right. Why should our children have to go through fear and anxiety because of this child's outbursts.

@Babieseverywhere I'm pleased it was resolved your end and good came out of it. That's so nice of you to have the child for tea. This little ones too old for my child anyway and my DD would be quite scared if I invited her over. I actually have never seen her. I do feel for her. I really do. But my child's my main concern.

I appreciate everyone's replies and hope this all gets resolved soon. I will be worrying at lunchtime from now on until my child stops mentioning her. Fingers crossed there's no long term trauma.

I’ve been in this situation. My son started reception along with a boy who was then undiagnosed with ADHD. My son has a liver transplant and other health issues and was being purposely punched in the stomach by this boy. The schools answer was to keep my son in at break time... I moved him to another school and he is so happy and cared for there.
I don’t feel any animosity towards the child who has now been diagnosed with ADHD as I have aspergers myself, as does my eldest, but I wasn’t letting my 4 year old be used as a punchbag.

OP, your concern is for your child not the other older girl. Whether she is looked after or not is a moot point, the concern is that one older child is hurting younger children including yours and the school seem to be doing little to protect your child.

In your position I would email the head and governors asking how they are going to safeguard your child. They have a duty of care to every single person in the school and even if this girl is fostered her needs should not trump others or, come at the expense of others.

Your letter/email needs to focus upon your child’s safety and happiness -no one else’s. I would also mention that if they fail to safeguard your child you will be letting OFSTED know this is a school which is a dangerous place for your child to attend.

The reasons for the older child’s behaviour is no one’s business.

Write a letter outlining your concerns and demand that your child be kept safe. Ask for a meeting now and every time there is an incident. Every time an incident occurs, whether or not it is to your child, do the same. Get any injuries documented. If your child is scared to go to school or is anxious get this documented. Tell other parents to do the same. Be the squeaky gate.

I hope you use your vote wisely and have been putting pressure on government to increase funding for special schools and SEN support in mainstream schools. There are 8,500 awaiting speccislist provision. Many in not in school at all. Around 75% of msinstream schools will be posting a deficit budget this year and with SEzn funding not ring fenced it ends up not being spent on SEN.

If the school can’t supervise this child in public areas at break times then they should be keeping her inside until she learns to behave. We would be up in arms if an adult came on here complaining they were being physically attacked in their workplace and feeling scared. Why do we think it’s acceptable for children to just put up with it?

The child should be able to access more targeted therapies, be in smaller groups, be taught by more relevantly trained staff etc. Does that not happen?

No, because there is no money!! When I was first in teaching 15 years ago we had regular visits from specialist teachers offering support and putting plans in place for anything from behaviour support to physical disability. These roles have been cut to the bone and there is virtually nothing available. If there is access to a specialist teacher, then there are likely no LSAs to carry out the suggested interventions/support.
As for specialist school places, I am a governor for an alternative provision school for pupils with challenging behaviour and SEMH difficulties. Local schools tell us they have pupils they are desperate to send to us but they can't because they would have to part-fund the place and they can't afford to.

Parents really really need to start realising what is happening in schools and make a fuss to the only people who can do anything about it - the government.

@iheartniles well said!!

I won't be voting Tory's!

I will write a letter of my concerns thank you.

I don't mean to sound like im focused on the child. Apologies if I do. I'm just seeing where the issue is and to me she is going outside after lunch and harming children. Therefore she needs removing or supporting in the playground.

@Beveren The foster parents might already be doing this. Fostered children can have a lot of issues that can't be fixed overnight and in the meantime, she still needs to go school.

Let's face it, it all boils down to money.
If the child is kept in at lunchtime then who is going to supervise her?
It's lunch time, staff are not paid during this time.
Dinnertime staff cannot possible work one to one with a child, who looks after all the other chuldren?
If you expect staff to work unpaid and have no break themselves then you must be dreaming.
Write to the head outlining your concerns about your child's safety. Focus on that. Do not offer suggestions as to how the school should tackle the other child's behaviour. Remain calm and stick to facts e.g. I am concerned that on Thursday my child was punched in the stomach etc .
Trust me, all the staff would prefer not to have to deal with this but under the present government it is not going to improve.
Local authorities only have so much money, that had time spread thinly.
Don't be fooled into thinking Ofsted care. The only thing that matters to Ofsted are academic results. Any one telling you otherwise is talking bollocks.
Using a member of staff to sit one to one with this child stops them from pushing other children to achieve good academic results which is what they are there to do.
Every time there is an incident ask to speak to The teacher/head about it.

Forgive me if I'm just reiterating what has already been said, but I have only read P1.
It's not clear that the child has SN - the behaviour could be learned from the original home environment, it could be trauma/stress/PTSD. It could be many things.
As a school governor I am of the mind that the school are failing in their safeguarding duty. To children affected by this one child, and to this one child.
Yes, funding is shit, but they still need to find appropriate measures to ensure everyone is safe.
It may be that the school are in the process of getting an EHCP plan funded for the child. It may be that the local authority are slow to action it. But to allow the same child to harm others regularly, and to punish them by keeping them in isolation isn't right either.
If you haven't already, I would suggest you write to the head of the school/safeguarding lead (school can tell you who the latter is), and raise your concerns directly with them. If you are brushed off/get no response, then take it to thr board of governors. Suggest you also urge other parents to do the same.

FWIW, the school I work with is large, and underfunded. They have been obliged by the local authority to take in extra pupils (beyond capacity), and have a number of. SN children who genuinely need to be in a special schools environment, but whose parents refuse to place them there. The SENCO has constant battles with the local authorities about funding, and yet, they still manage to prevent children harming themselves and others.

The issue here is not the childs behaviour or the way the school is managing it, or even that the child should be in specilist provision or home schooled (which is some circumstances can do more damage).

The issue is that due tory austerity and in particular cuts to school budgets, the school haven't got the money to put the appropriate support in place for a child who needs it. It's unfair to blame a child for being a victim of their circumstances, as also although we know she is fostered we don't know what the situation was that lead to that being the case and what she may have experienced prior to being removed to the family home. Compassion is what is needed and understanding that it's the wider system (government cuts) that are the cause of the issues and not one little girls trauma.

I am also surprised that reception children have the same break time as KS1 children as to my knowledge they are usually separated

You can only ask what is being done to safeguard your child, not about others or the perpetrator. She may well have issues which are being assessed or addressed but this takes time, evidence and funding, and is confidential. If she is being talked about in the playground , to the extent you hear about incidents in her classroom , then you are all gossiping. Remember at the centre of this is a 7 yo child who for whatever reason has had an unfortunate start and needs support. She may have additional needs or be damaged by her birth situation and have behavioural issues as a result, you cannot know nor should. Foster care can be long term and challenging for foster parents and children alike. I would hope the school can use any pupil premium funding and apply for further resources so she can have a specialist ta to help her.

OP - correct me if I am wrong
This girl who has been fostered probably is lashing out . It is not the girls fault, she is trying to make sense of a very confusing world and probably is constantly in fight or flight mode.

Your daughter would probably be the same if she was taken away from everything she knew at an early age. Not to mention all the stuff that happened in this girls life to lead her to foster care.

I am not saying that your daughter should be subjected to violent behaviour. For the well-being of all concerned the school should put measures in place to reduce this as much as possible.

But, this is the problem there us NO funding. Schools can only get the funding after they have evidenced the behavioural difficulties. Therefore children like this girl have to fail to then be supported, so evidence is collected. In the meantime your daughter and her little friends are collateral damage. But, at least they go home to safe, permanent, loving family.

It is such a crap system and I am angry for all the children in this situation. I feel for the schools and the teachers too, they cant spend money they dont have.

I would suggest you advocate for your daughter in a measured way and be angry at the decision makers who have failed all of these children.

In all fairness Iheartniles in an adult situation this would not happen. A manager would not have to spend their day sat one to one with an employer would they? They would deal with it and then get on with the job they are paid to do. They would not spend all day everyday using their time to supervise an employee to the detriment of doing the job they are paid to do
Trust me schools would find it easier to exclude disruptive/non achieving pupils but it's not that simple.
State schools are not selective. If they were then all the low ability, naughty kids would not go to school.I
Only private schools are allowed to pick and choose.