To think this child needs a specialist school

[Londongirl86]

Hi all. I am concerned about a child at my child's school and her behaviour. A week ago my DD was attacked by this child at lunch. She rubbed food all over her face and punched her in the back. The teacher said she has problems and that doesn't excuse it but she's dealt with.

I went home happy enough and told my DD to keep away from her. Over the last few days two other parents knew straight away at the gates who had hurt her. The reason being their children had also been hurt by this child. She also gets angry in class and they have to evacuate there kids.

My friends child was hurt by this kid Thursday. And apparently she also kicked mine again. so we reported it yesterday morning. She came out of school yesterday and told me this child smacked her drink out her hand and stamped on her friends foot. The teachers said nothing to me after school. My child said she was taken indoors for being naughty.

Through conversation in the playground at least 7 kids have been attacked by her. She has problems and we know she's fostered. She clearly isn't able to cope. What is really upsetting is the teachers allowing her out at lunch to harm others. They said it's hard to watch her. You would think they would be concerned she will put a child in hospital if she kicks or pushes them wrong.

My child's only been at school 2 months. She's still settling. I'm annoyed I'm in a position now where I need to keep having words with the teachers. I don't want to become that annoying mum that's pestering them every day. But I also AM not comfortable with my child being put at risk by a violent child who is struggling.

What should be happening with all this? Surely she should be constantly with an adult or at a specialist school?

No I'm certainly not voting Tory this week. I never have and I never will. I'm saying what I have seen happening in my school, though admittedly only on a temporary basis.

My DDs have been kept in during break times to finish homework or when they have an injury. So surely it could be done at least over short periods? It could be that the child would rather be inside. (As has been said about a similar child.)

Sadly I only think this will be dealt with when a serious injury occurs.

I hate the attitude of some people who think that the other kids should just put up with it because that violent kid has had a bad life. NO adult would accept going to work wondering if they were going to be physically assaulted that day. Why should our children live with that fear? It is TOTALLY unacceptable for this to be happening in schools but it is happening more and more due to massive underfunding and schools being powerless. The system is not only letting down the vulnerable child but every child who comes into contact with that child. You have every right to demand that they keep your child safe. Yes it's tricky for schools but they should provide 1-1 at ALL times.

I don't think anyone has suggested the girls actions are acceptable.

I think that people are trying to point out that mainstream may be the best option for her to integrate back into society and learn to cope. The PROBLEM is not the girl but the lack of funding and resources available to the school and the system as a whole to allow the process to be done correctly and successfully. By further isolating the child you are just continuing to further exasperate the issues around socialisation and behaviour, but again the education system and LA's simply don't have the funding to put the support and interventions in place to do so in a positive manner. Therefore I personally would feel that rather then directing anger at a child who is the product of very unfortunate circumstances, anger should instead be directing at a failing government which is making it impossible for the necessary support to be put in place and is therefore failing to safeguard her peers. You cant blame and be angry at a child for acting in the only way she has ever know and has been taught during fundamental socialising and developmental years. You can be angry at a system which fails to provide the necessary support and help to this child and therefore safeguard the children around her.
Even just having a 121(with the necessary skills and speciality) assigned would probably make a huge difference at breaks and lunch, and I find the idea of reception children having break time with ks2 children bizarre 🤔 and something that in my opinion the school should be assessing and highlighting clearly is not working. Removing the access to younger children would very likely have a positive impact on the childs behaviour as she seems to target those who small to fight back (which very likely reflects her own experiences).

I fully support you going to the school and focusing on your childs safety, and finding out how they will support reception age children as these experiences will potentially cause a negative association with school and education for such young children, but it's possible to do that without solely focusing on removing the other child. The school should be working to find a solution that works for all children involved which allows the girl to stay in the place where professionals involved have deemed most appropriate while still protecting children who are much younger and smaller.

Soapboxqueen, I have to send my child to school with the risk of being assaulted, explaining to a child too young to really understand that if they get hurt it’s because of his past, so there is nothing we can do about it. It’s heartbreaking that I cannot protect my 6 year old when they are in a place where she should be safe.
I have had meetings with head, I have gone to the council...but surprise, there is sod all that can be done. The fostered kid has constant supervision in school, but mine has already been hurt whilst he is supervised. So my child is one opportunity away from being hurt, because they can obviously not manage him. There are no options but to move school, which would be detrimental to mine cause she is already a big ball of anxiety. Options are very limited!

IHaveNotAClue

Then you can move school or home school. That's one more option than I have.

Again, nobody has suggested that children should have to put up with being hurt. The difficulties everyone has are due to budget cuts and lack of support. It is not the fault of the children.

Soapboxqueen

Due to work commitments I cannot do either. So we have to accept that she can/will potentially get hurt whilst at school. Or should I have to give up my job to homeschool, and have my child missing out on school friends and a particularly normal childhood and education when she isn’t the problem.

I fully support you going to the school and focusing on your childs safety, and finding out how they will support reception age children as these experiences will potentially cause a negative association with school and education for such young children, but it's possible to do that without solely focusing on removing the other child.

That's true. One PP suggested separating the reception class from the older children and that does make sense. (Surely that should be an obvious solution?)

To suggest people could always home school to get away from a violent child seems really unfair. The children who go to school and play and learn and try and make friends don't deserve to loose that opportunity because of a child with inadequate support and behavioural issues. Our children are not collateral damage. When we hand our children over to school they are in their care. They are responsible for their safety and happiness.

I feel sorry for the teachers who have to accept violence from little people who are unhappy and struggling.

I don't only have one goal to get this child removed. I have a massive concern for safety of others and despite her background she doesn't have the right to beat up defensless children. We all need to learn the right way in life.

Any other scenario and we do the responsible thing. Like we hold our child's hand until they can cross a road safely. We don't let them in a pool alone before they can swim. We remove them from a fight at playgroup when they both want the same thing. We don't leave them in a bath or the sea incase they drown. We wouldn't leave them on their own before they are old enough. We watch them when they eat to prevent choking. So why on earth would you leave a child to socialise on her own when she still needs social support. She is unable to understand the consequences of her actions. She doesn't understand a wrong kick could potentially kill someone. She doesn't understand if someone has a health issue her kicking them could cause damage. She doesn't understand that children will be scared and unable to sleep over the thought of her loosing it again tomorrow.

So it is absolutely WRONG for her to be trialed like this. Bless her little heart she's an innocent child. But goodness me imagine how serious things could get. I will be asking the school how they plan to protect my child! But I will continue to feel she should not be able to carry on being unsupervised and terrorising others. If that means 1 on 1 then great. If that means separation at lunch great. If that means she can go to a school with specialist staff then great. If she gets educated at home due to continuing to harm others than that's best for her victims. She will grow up and have to live with the pain she has caused others. Let's hope she doesn't have to remember for the rest of her life how she caused someone serious harm. She shouldn't have to go through that either. She needs protecting from all this and so do the other kids. I don't want my child to ever be violent but if the school continue to fail her I will tell her to defend herself if she can. I never want my DD to be a scared victim and I won't allow her to keep taking it because she knows I teach her never to hit.

IHaveNotAClue

Then give up work like I and thousands of other parents have to.

My child is not a problem. Your child is not more deserving of an education than mine. My child's education is essential, not a nice to have once everyone else is happy.

Lack of funding and support is the problem.

ShelbyGirl Do you think expecting children with disabilities differences to be home schooled is fair? To expect parents to give up work and shoulder the entire financial burden of educating their child due to the inability of society to value their children is fair?

Soapboxqueen, so I should give up my job, not be able to pay my mortgage that keeps a roof over our heads, gives us money for food in our bellies and struggle when my child isn’t the problem. That’s ridiculous!

It's impossible to be fair to everyone though; as the saying goes, life isn't fair. It isn't just the children with behavioural issues who have been through trauma. My DD1 has meltdowns at home but she isn't violent at school. I would be devastated if she was targeted by a bully, because it could be really damaging.

I was a traumatised child. I was abused at home and bullied at school. I never saw any bully penalised for bullying me. That isn't how it should be. The worst bully I faced had a mum who was dying of cancer. Yes, I have empathy for her now, but it doesn't change the fact that she made my school life hell.

We talk about zero tolerance for bullying. This child is a bully. Or are you saying that we can only use the word to describe children who come from stable backgrounds?

I don't think we do children any favours if they don't have to face consequences for their actions. They'll never be able to function in a paid job as adults otherwise. The prisons are populated by people with chaotic family backgrounds.

For this reason I do sanction DD1 (10) when she throws something in a temper or lashes out, by deducting her pocket money. (We do give her the chance to earn it back.) We wouldn't be doing her any favours if we didn't give her consequences for her actions.

I realise that schools have their hands tied. But what are we coming to if well behaved children are forced to leave and be homeschooled? That's what I call unfair.

IHaveNotAClue that's exactly what I've had to do and my child isn't a 'problem' thank you.

He's just as deserving as yours of an education.

The system and lack of funding is at fault not individual children.

Lizzie my son is not badly behaved. He has autism. He cannot be trained out of autism or punished out of autism. He's a good boy who has meltdowns.

He's incredibly vulnerable with respect to bullies as he wouldn't be able to tell me what had happened. Imagine that, not only having your child hurt but your child being unable to ask for help.

You are putting a higher premium on the education of children your deem worthy eg the well behaved and disregarding children as 'bad' if they cannot meet that level. Nobody should be forced into home educating if its not what they want to do. However deciding that it's terrible if 'well behaved' children are forced into it and a fact of life if children with disabilities are, is ableist behaviour.

The child is not the problem, the system and lack of funding/support is the problem.

God this thread makes depressing reading
Unsurprising in the current climate
But by god depressing
I sorely suspect the OP has got wha she wanted from the thread

As a practical suggestion, our reception class have a separate outdoor area that can be seen from the infant yard.
Could the reception ch use that facility if you have one?

soapboxqueen, the child in question is violent and unpredictable, that kind of behaviour shouldn’t be in mainstream school. So his behaviour is a problem. He is a problem to us.
That’s unfortunate for you, but I would like my child to see me working hard to achieve and provide, not giving in to bullies, because that’s what he is at the end of the day. I’m doing all I can to support and help her my end, I don’t want her to just lay down and let bullies dictate what she does, to hide away out of fear, nobody should live life like that.

Nobody Is literally meaning it like the bully is the problem. I mean technically they are as they are the ones harming others. The issue and the blame does lie with the lack of support and funding etc etc.

The lack of funding is not the child's fault at all. But that still doesn't justify this situation continuing.

It's ok people saying this might be the best place for her. But that's not fair if that means 30+ children in her class have to suffer and be placed at risk everyday of her temper. We can't wait months or years on the hope something will improve. We can't hope while we wait her actions don't have serious consequences for a little child. Why is it fair for several kids parents to think I have no other option than take my child away from this child. Remove them from a school that is good and has outstanding behaviour (until now) a school that ranks slightly higher in this town that the other options. Why do other kids have to move out and restart somewhere else so they don't get a good kick at lunch.

You can give as much sympathy to the violent child as you like but it's 100% fact she will be attacking children tomorrow again. So when you are enjoying your sandwich safe at your desks or wherever, there will be a small another child in tears by the time you have finished because they were innocently playing and were targeted. This will happen everyday next week. It possibly will be my little girl again. Maybe some new kids this week. Maybe this time it will be a worse injury. But yes as long as she's being given the best chance for herself that's the main thing.

Ofcourse Sen children should be allowed to mainstream schools. Just because someone has autism or asd etc it doesn't mean they can't be happy, learn and make friends. There is an autistic child in my child's class. She likes him. He sometimes hurts people but he's a good kid and has definitely played with my child before. So this is not about her being sen. It's about concerning aggressive violence and being left to repeat it.

@FraglesRock they do have a little outdoor bit but they don't use it at lunch time. I think it's to do with it being set away from the playground so there wont be anyone to watch them

@hobnobsaremyfave

I only came on here for advice not to test her apart. I've looked at both sides and have sympathised with all involved. My concern is my child. I'm also concerned she's left to it. That's all.

No parent should be forced to homeschool there child irrespective of whether their child is 'good' or not.

IHaveNotAClue Well that's kind of how we've ended up this way isn't it. Nobody cares until they see a problem and then they want the problem gone. Don't care where. Just gone.

Maybe if we paid attention before it was a problem, if we demanded funding and support for the children we deemed to not be worthy of being in classes with the nice children, we wouldn't be spending time discussing this because support, interventions and specialist placements would be available for the children who need them. Then children wouldn't be getting hurt.

I personally am teaching my children that there is always a place for them and that they are valued, even if they can't do what everyone else is doing. That I've got their back. I can still do all of that without blaming other children for situations not of their making.

She needs compassion and nurture! She needs adults who understand attachment based difficulties and who are responsive to that. She doesn’t need farming off to a “specialist” school, FGS

@Londongirl86 The only way to speed up the process of getting something done is to demand the head take action to safeguard your child and get others to do the same.

Keep going. Don't think, oh I've been in enough this week. The more pressure that is exerted, the more likely something will happen. E-mail them if you can't see them in person. Get other parents to do the same.

A lot of LEAs will only step in when things are at crisis point.