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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be shit scared of BJ winning the next election?

754 replies

thentherewerefour · 06/12/2019 10:31

Not sure how everyone else is doing, but I am just increasingly terrified about the idea that BJ and the likes of Jacob Rees-Morgan, Ian Duncan Smith (god they are just so disgusting Angry) are going to win this election. Got family in Australia and this morning it was raining ash and people literally can't breathe. The Tories are going to do nothing, zero, nada about climate change. And when I look at my kids I just don't know how we are going to survive another five years. and don't get my started about the state of the kid's school - the teachers are doing their best, but the reality is it's a shit show bc of how many cuts they have had. Friends are going canvassing for Labour and me and DH are doing our bit too - but it all just feels surreal - BJ talks shit, tells lies, and has reinvented himself as "new" when the fucker has been IN GOVT for years. Any got any ideas on how we can turn this around?

OP posts:
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BertrandRussell · 08/12/2019 20:58

Sadly, there is plenty of anti Semitic a in our society. So it would be very strange if there was none in our political parties. It is also true that in general people on the left lean towards support for Palestine and people on the right lean towards support for Israel. It is also true that the biggest lobby group in the HofC is the Conservative Friends of Israel. It is in their interests if it becomes impossible to talk about Israeli government policy in Palestine without being considered anti Semitic. This does not mean that there isn’t a a problem with anti Semitism in the Labour Party. There is. But there are a lot of pro Palestinian people in the Labour Party and lots of pro Israel people in the Conservative party.....

ColourMagic · 09/12/2019 05:39

"You posted about an incident that was reported by a newspaper they were pulled up for misreporting"

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The newspaper was the Jewish Chronicle, which is widely and repeatedly quoted by the mainstream press as though it's statements are always factual, and as though it represents all Jews (it doesn't).

The Press Complaints body IPSO made a highly critical report on the articles, and on the JC's obstructions to IPSO's investigation.

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When investigated, a great many highly publicised media stories about antisemitism in the Labour party are based on hearsay, often a single claim. In these days of mobile recordings its not unreasonable to expect verifiable evidence, at least some of the time, when the claims
are given high profile nationwide media coverage.

It was claimed by the Jewish Chronicle that Louise Ellman was 'bullied' at her local Labour party meeting. The Chronicle, or its informant, extensively lied about that, IPSO found.

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"One would believe reading your posts you think there is some sort of conspiracy going on"

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My posts are mostly reports you won't read in the mainstream media. You can read them here.

'Conspiracy theory' is a tired old meme so often used to discredit information the hearer doesn't want to hear.

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The long term, years ongoing, racism against Dianne Abbott is supported by evidence in the form of emails and letters.

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"It’s beyond embarrassing for the party it’s shameful that now only absolute proof (whatever that is as is so easily is dismissed) is needed to accept there is any form of prejudice or racism"

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Manipulative hyperbole, I have asked You for evidence to back up Your statements. You simply continue with unevidenced claims.

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BertrandRussell · 09/12/2019 08:34

Also, religious leaders have by convention, never weighed into election campaigns. Until this one.

EntropyRising · 09/12/2019 08:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ColourMagic · 09/12/2019 08:56

Journalist Peter Oborne's 2009 Channel 4 Dispatches documentary on the extensive political influence of the Israel Lobby in the UK.

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"How British policy is influenced by supporters of a foreign power"

"Dispatches reveals the activities of the most effective Lobby working inside British politics"

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thehorseandhisboy · 09/12/2019 09:02

A post from Jewish Voice for Labour urging people not to vote for the Conservative party has just popped up on my FB timeline.

As has one about three Conservative ministers being investigated for anti-semitism.

Racism in any form is utterly shite. Let's not kid ourselves that a vote for the Conservatives is somehow opposing anti-semitism.

EntropyRising · 09/12/2019 09:02

I'm hardly an unthinking conservative who doesn't grasp the strength of Israel's hold on UK politics. I really get it. I go to Palestinian fundraisers all the time and they say things that I completely agree with that would certainly be viewed as anti-semitic in some quarters.

But still, I think a militant anti-Jewish faction has flourished under Corbyn. Mind you I don't think Corbyn has a racist bone in his body, he reserves all his hatred for anyone with any aspiration Wink .

CendrillonSings · 09/12/2019 09:15

Also, religious leaders have by convention, never weighed into election campaigns. Until this one.

Probably because there has never been an election in which there was a serious risk of a party infested with antisemitism seizing power in the UK. Until this one.

www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/corbyn-s-labour-worst-global-anti-semitic-incident-simon-wiesenthal-center-says-1.8234437

The Jeremy Corbyn-led Labour Party is the year's worst global anti-Semitic incident, the Jewish human rights and Holocaust remembrance organization Simon Wiesenthal Center announced Saturday.

"In a year awash with anti-Semitism on both sides of the Atlantic, no one has done more to mainstream anti-Semitism" in a democratic country than the U.K.'s Labour Party under Corbyn's leadership, the Simon Wiesenthal Center wrote.

EntropyRising · 09/12/2019 09:18

Haaretz is sharply critical of Israel and pretty much a left-wing outpost, if I'm remembering correctly? That they're carrying that is significant.

ColourMagic · 09/12/2019 09:22

The House of Commons Home Affairs Committee Report states that there is no greater prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour party than that in any other party.

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Our media been full of stories about antisemitism and Labour, but barely any reports of antisemitism in any other party. That's unbalanced reporting, and a serious matter, especially in the run up to an important election.

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House of Commons Home Affairs Committee, on Antisemitism in the UK:

“Despite significant press and public attention on the Labour Party, and a number of revelations regarding inappropriate social media content, there exists no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other party.”

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CendrillonSings · 09/12/2019 09:27

ColourMagic

A report published 3 years ago? I notice you omit the date! The infestation has spread much further into Labour since then...

MaxNormal · 09/12/2019 09:36

Haaretz is sharply critical of Israel and pretty much a left-wing outpost, if I'm remembering correctly?

Haaretz is definitely left-of-centre but they do carry a variety of opinions, some very pro-Israel and some Gideon Levy, who, if he wasn't Jewish, would be considered a massive anti-Semite.

ColourMagic · 09/12/2019 09:37

"infestation"

It's more the case that the Israel Lobby factions, such as the Jewish Labour Movement, and Labour friends of Israel (LFI), funded via the Israeli Embassy, have become far more active and vocal since Corbyn was elected leader, and gone into overdrive now there will be an important election.

The lobby group the Labour Friends of Israel (LFI) still has not explained what the £1 million sent from Israel to the LFI * was for, or has been spent on.

  • Filmed in the documentary series 'The Lobby'
CendrillonSings · 09/12/2019 09:40

Ah, of course, those shadowy figures behind the scenes controlling everything, right? Are those the ones you mean? Hmm

BertrandRussell · 09/12/2019 09:45

The Conservative Friends of Israel is the most powerful lobby group I. The HofC. The vast majority of Tory MPs are members. Nothing shadowy about them - apart from how much money they donate. As with all lobby groups.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 09/12/2019 10:11

So it’s quite clear Colour that you don’t accept unless there is absolute hard evidence when people report that they are the victims of prejudice and bullying that they are so upset and distressed by this they give up their position that that have dedicated themselves to for years

And no doubt you would consider yourself to be empathetic

Nothing detracting in my argument you are just again and again showing your stance

thehorseandhisboy · 09/12/2019 10:21

This is the article about Tory candidates being 'probed' about their anti-semitic .

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50700874?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR0ogVYVP1NK9xyDAQ5f9xMKFWqhBrOmlwrz4QjvId-s6wE0UcS9yap0Fog

thehorseandhisboy · 09/12/2019 14:01

And the press statement from the Jewish Voices for Labour following their protest yesterday about BBC anti-Labour bias during their election coverage

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/jewish-voice-for-labour-lobbies-bbc-over-election-coverage-bias/?fbclid=IwAR14HgUYyLRu0o_Sj7xtmfqY1e9gvNcyshbPl8mr9B6zbzwt2w7MobPbD2M

YouJustDoYou · 09/12/2019 18:21

"Should I be shit scared if bj wins" - no. People are not dying in their thousands. People are scraping by. The NHS needs massive investment, as do our police. But we are not a society at the edge. Try living somewhere as we did where there are bullet holes in every building along mains street, where bodies are left in the gutter. Where true utter corruption is so prolific and horrific the corruption of This country is laughable. You people are so privileged. You have no idea, and it's sad.

ArseDarkly · 09/12/2019 19:49

This country is laughable. You people are so privileged. You have no idea, and it's sad.

People have enough idea to understand how close we all are to crossing the line into chaos when you have a government that hammers the poor and opposes democracy.

Sure, people could be more grateful if their lives are comfortable but one thing doesn't cancel out the other - people are also right to be fearful of a leader like Johnson who really doesn't give a shit about this country.

YouJustDoYou · 09/12/2019 22:04

People have enough idea to understand how close we all are to crossing the line into chaos when you have a government that hammers the poor and opposes democracy

Try living in Venezuela. Which we did, although admittedly Dh spent years more there than I. I'm pissing myself laughing at your hysterical post. "Chaos". Jesus, you are a completely and utterly privileged Westerner. But I would never wish on you the knowledge that comes with growing up somewhere where true governmental and societal instability is horrific. It's honestly baffling the viewpoint some people have in this country about "poverty" and "chaos".

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 09/12/2019 22:08

Thats a really ironic user name under the circumstances youjustdoyou

ArseDarkly · 09/12/2019 23:53

You're pissing yourself laughing youjustdoyou? Bully for you.

Do you piss yourself laughing at 'privileged westerners' homeless on the streets? Lying on hospital floors/dying on trolleys in the corridor? Have a good laugh at overcrowded toxic prisons do you? Did you split your sides when Johnson suspended Parliament unlawfully?

If you can dismiss these things so easily you have obviously learnt nothing from your experiences. When you allow lies and injustice and gross inequality to go unchecked you are risking breakdown in society. One of the very sobering lessons i've learnt from the Brexit chaos in our Parliament is just how thin that dividing line between a 'civilised' society and a 'broken' one is.

But please feel free to have a good old chortle about that Hmm

fligglepige · 10/12/2019 00:01

'You people are so privileged. You have no idea, and it's sad.'

Get to fuck with your sanctimonious shite. I grew up in Northern Ireland during the troubles, Johnston and his Brexit will plunge this country - part of the UK - back into civil war. Yes actual war with bombs and everything. You want to talk about social instability - we haven't had a government for 3 years. A far cry from the days of the Good Friday Agreement that Labour had a massive hand in. People in this country and the rest of the UK have died because of Tory austerity measures, and if they get a majority it's going to become much, much worse for all of us. And we don't need wankers like you who spent a gap year in Venezuela patronising us about how privileged we are because we don't want that.

JolieOBrien · 10/12/2019 04:59

@figglepige

I am half Irish and lived through the pub bombings as a child and was terrified every time there was a bomb scare in Birmingham. You have my sympathies.

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