Children of working mothers are more likely to mug you

[chomalungma]

I know. It was 13 years ago. It's probably out of context. Sometimes you say things that rattle a few cages.

But it all builds a picture of our current Prime Minister, Boris Johnson.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/04/boris-johnson-claimed-children-of-working-mothers-more-likely-to-mug-you

"“In the last 30 years an ever-growing proportion of British women have been ‘incentivised’ or socially gestapoed into the workplace, on what seems to me to be the dubious assumption that the harder a woman works the happier she will be, when I am not sure that is true of women or anyone else,” he wrote.

In the book, published before he became mayor of London, Johnson said an increasing number of female graduates tended to pair up with male graduates – a process known by economists as “assortative mating” – and that they then pool their advantages.

“The result is that in families on lower incomes the women have absolutely no choice but to work, often with adverse consequences for family life and society as a whole – in that unloved and undisciplined children are more likely to become hoodies, Neets [not in education, employment or training] and mug you on the street corner."

AIBU to think that his articles from the past reveal much about his views on women, Muslims, LGBT people....

File this under "Things that are (on average) true, but you're not allowed to say so."

I'd love it if one of us could be a SAHP, and I'm sure if we could our kids would benefit.

I mean, if one of you could switch to being a full time SAHP, it'd be a hell of a coincidence if your kids then got exactly the same amount of high quality parenting. Chances are they are either going to get a bit more or a bit less - so which do you think is most likely? Duh.

High quality parenting has so much more to do with qualifying the number of minutes each parent spends with their child. It’s far more about imparting values, engaging with them, providing enriching experiences (either with both, one or neither parent present) and sharing a life together that goes on for years.

It’s interesting that research showed that during the (quite limited) period when SAHM were more common, the actual time spent with their children, playing with them, talking to them etc was far less than when more women worked. This rings true because the 50s/60s/70s was a time when kids would often be sent out to play for entire afternoons.

Anyway, the proof of the pudding is in how children grow up, and us WOHM have been around a while now, and many of us have very happy and successful adult children.

Maybe therein lies the rub... there are a few posters here who would clearly like some sort of proof that children of WOHP suffer in some way and are very disappointed that it isn’t so. Very strange and bitter attitude

Qualifying= quantifying

@cukooboo
I wasn't suggesting my experience was more valid than yours, just that the statistics probably explain the difference in our experience.

Lots of the higher earners commute to London which is over an hour and a half away. This is obviously prohibitive for the school run as you would be getting to work around midday-ish or leaving just after lunch which obviously isn't feasible for most. Unsurprisingly lots of the high earner (who are overwhelming male) often choose to stay over in London to avoid the grinding commute but this obviously affects their time at home and consequently their partner's ability to work. To justify the cost of the commute or staying over, their salaries are obviously high and therefore they are mostly relatively senior, often in management and expected to have a presence in the office. This can be an issue when it comes to working from home. This is the general trend I observe amongst those I know that do this commute including my DH. I guess it's a penalty you pay for living outside of London.

I would also suggest the type of work available outside of London tends to be different and lends itself less to WFH. I used to work for a national organisation and really noticed that the regional offices had more of the "core" staff that needed to be at their workplace to do their job and keep things ticking over whereas the more strategic, creative or development work was done centrally.

Yes @Cosmok that's exactly what the research concluded. And as my research was in the US is also had links to gun crimes.

It found that working fathers feel emasculated by working mothers as society pressures men to be the provider.

Morgan then the issue isn't with working mothers but with poverty, poor childcare and the socialisation of sex based roles. It's a bit disingenuous to pass it off as the decline in the housewife role.

Gosh. Makes me glad I partnered a man who sees me as his equal and doesn’t need me to have his dinner on the table at 6 in order to feel important

Apologies then @Bumpitybumper

A 3 hour commute is going to make school pick ups harder definitely even with flexi time.

To justify the cost of the commute or staying over, their salaries are obviously high and therefore they are mostly relatively senior, often in management and expected to have a presence in the office. This can be an issue when it comes to working from home.

I tend to find that more senior staff (& better paid) have the greatest flexibility & access to remote working & part time working although i'm sure it depends on the sector.

I do find that some men aren't interested in changing their life in order to facilitate their partners working pattern & what's possible for their female colleagues isn't somehow available to them.

I would also suggest the type of work available outside of London tends to be different and lends itself less to WFH

I agree with this.

Loads of people routinely commute into london for an hour or more and do the school run where I am. It's perfectly doable with breakfast club/other partner wfh that day/childminder/afterschool clubs etc

And once they get to seondary school it is completely a non issue.

I love how SAHMs on this thread are trying to make out that WOHP or WFHP lives are much harder than they really are.

if one of you could switch to being a full time SAHP, it'd be a hell of a coincidence if your kids then got exactly the same amount of high quality parenting

Well I'm more or less a full time SAHP but I spend time on MN and I do some freelance work. And my son is at college, so it's immaterial where I am and what I am doing when he's not at home, and that would apply right from when he started school at 4. The one advantage is that if he does need a lift or I need to talk to his school/college, it is easier to arrange.

When I did work FT the trains were reliable and I didn't have difficulties collecting my son. Things have changed a bit now and I don't actually know how parents of younger kids cope.

But in terms of "high quality parenting" it makes zero difference.

And as a side note, I don't "parent", I am a parent. Life would be much better if people didn't flatter themselves to be doing this amazing parenting job. No, you produced sprogs and you're bringing them up - generally the best you can in the circumstances you find yourself.

Loads of people routinely commute into london for an hour or more and do the school run where I am. It's perfectly doable with breakfast club/other partner wfh that day/childminder/afterschool clubs etc

A commute would be about an hour for me into central London.

After school club finishes at 6pm.

I'd have to find a job that finished at 5...these are becoming rarer. Even if I did finish at five, it would be a mad rush and I'd better pray the trains weren't fucked up.
Oh and as nice as after school club is, it is a long day for a child. By the time you get home it's 6.30...they need chill out time, dinner, bath, reading. My youngest is in bed by 8pm. It's a lot to fit into an hour and a half.

It sounds hellishly stressful.

I like picking my DC up...coming home to dinner already made. Letting her play, watch TV together, read, help with homework, listen to her day.

I am sorry if that doesn't make me especially interesting or high achieving, but I don't give a shit.

I don't think it's anything to do with whether parents work, it's whether parents are active and engaged with their kids, making sure they know who their friends are, what they're up to, and their kids know that if they get into trouble their parents will care, and will ensure they are held accountable.

As a SAHP, I'm fed up with parents (any parents) continually being damned for their choices, and no credit for how hard they work to make them work for their family, and to do their best by their kids. And as a SAHP I think we should be appreciative of the fact that we were able to make the choice to be a SAHP, and to make it work for us, when so many, with the best will in the world, could not make that choice.

But more and more jobs are becoming more flexible and it is possible to work ft and still fit in school runs etc.

Both me and Dh work ft. Mine is a 35 min commute and his is about 50 mins. I can WFH at least 2 days a week and DH has 2 pick ups and 2 drops offs per week as a permanent fixture in his diary.

DS goes to wrap around care 3 days a week. Most days he's collected by 5pm ....there's only one day where he's there until 5.45. The other 2 days he's picked up from school at 3.15 by me.
This pattern of work is common amongst my friends and colleagues. This idea that children of ft working parents are stuck in awful childcare only seeing parents for an hour a day isn't one I recognise.

This idea that children of ft working parents are stuck in awful childcare

I don't think childcare is awful...I think it's tiring.

In school holidays my DC would have to go to a holiday club from 8.O0-6.00 minimum. That wouldn't be much of a rest during the summer for them.

It sounds hellishly stressful.

But you've never done it? I don't think your life sounds great, but I'm very prepared to accept that it's ideal for you. I'm sure you wouldn't like my life, but I do.

DH and I picked up DS from nursery early today to take him to his pre-school jabs. On the way home he said 'mummy I'm a bit worried' I assumed he was going to say his arm hurt, nope 'I wanted to have tea with my friends at nursery, with my favourite peppers'

@LisaSimpsonsbff

Yes, I have been a working mum...for a very short time. It was hellish... especially the week when my trains were fucked up every night

I don't think your life sounds great

And what especially about my life doesn't sound great?

Not not all children would need to do that formerbabe that's what you seem to be struggling to grasp.
Just because it doesn't/wouldn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for others.

Nobody is forcing you to work. We're just asking you to refrain from judging those that do.

We're just asking you to refrain from judging those that do

Whilst judging sahms as not being as interesting or as clever as you?

This pattern of work is common amongst my friends and colleagues. This idea that children of ft working parents are stuck in awful childcare only seeing parents for an hour a day isn't one I recognise.

ME. TOO

*A commute would be about an hour for me into central London.

After school club finishes at 6pm.

I'd have to find a job that finished at 5...these are becoming rarer. Even if I did finish at five, it would be a mad rush and I'd better pray the trains weren't fucked up.
Oh and as nice as after school club is, it is a long day for a child. By the time you get home it's 6.30...they need chill out time, dinner, bath, reading. My youngest is in bed by 8pm. It's a lot to fit into an hour and a half.*

Exactly the same for me and many others. i did this for years. DP did 8-4 and I did 9.30-5,.30 so one dropped off and one picked up or vice versa. It was stressful sometimes but most of the time it was fine. Because I did that for years, I can now work from home and dictate my own schedule so drop my primary school chidren off at 8.30 and am working or on the train by 9. If I have to go into London for a meeting I schedule them from 10. The secondary school children go in with their father in the morning and I pick everybody up between 3.30-6 depending on their clubs and activites or the older ones walk home and the younger ones go to afterschool club if I'm in London.That's the point, it gets easier as they get older and it is getting easier generaly with flexible working practices.

And you have to ask yourself. What are you going to do with your time once all your children are at secondary school? It sounds nice but it's pretty boring being stuck at home all day on your own with nothing particular to do after you've cleaned the already clean house and secondary school kids have their own lives and spend those late afternoon after school doing homework or mucking about with their friends.

@Findumdum1
I love how SAHMs on this thread are trying to make out that WOHP or WFHP lives are much harder than they really are
I think you've missed the point. All of your ideas on how to do the school run with a long commute basically involve someone else doing the school run for you or someone else looking after your children before or after school. That's fine if you're happy with that but lots of parents would rather their children had more time spent with them at home rather than in an external setting. The debate is about whether this is best achieved through two parents working flexibly and sharing the duties or whether having a SAHP and WOHP is an equally valid option. Nobody is disputing that all the options you list plus boarding schools at the most extreme end of the spectrum exist and are available to parents who work long hours and have big commutes.

Well, obviously I don't want to be a SAHM, as I've said. The idea of doing all the domestic stuff while DH worked is very, very unappealing to me. As I said, that doesn't mean I think you shouldn't like it. And it's a bit rich to get offended at me saying I don't want your life when you've been telling mothers all over this thread that their lives are hellish and damaging for their DC!

it's pretty boring being stuck at home all day on your own

I'm not bored at home but given the choice I'd rather be bored than juggling work timetables, meetings, booking external childcare and begging favours from family and friends.

And where have I done that formerbabe?
I don't judge other parents for the choices they make ..... unlike you.